Vandersteen Sub woofers v Rythmik Subs

@noble100 , @enginedr1960,

What's the crossover frequency and slope of the Swarm system? I understand the xo is before the Swarm amp and all subs operate in the same frequency range, summing up L & R.

My system is set up so the sealed subs cross at 80Hz to the mains, which have dual 6.5" midwoofers per side on vented boxes. I'm building new speakers with dual 10" per side in sealed boxes and hoping to reduce the xo frequency to maybe 60Hz.

Great bass everywhere in the room would not be prime Vandersteen design objective
great bass and the rest at a very optimal listening position is.
hence lots of out of the box  ideas implemented over the many years by RV ... out of the box which is a metaphor for innovation, not more boxes = out of the box....
anyway just a few that work together as a system to create the stereo illusion...
power factor corrected amp optimized for drivers in sub
transfer function of the main amplifier preserved - very important to preserving lower midrange phase integrity
high pass filter adjustable for amp
time and phase coherent
minimum baffle
eq bands not at fractional octaves to address common room nodes ( that one if ya pay attention is way out of equalizer box theory....
push pull aluminum cone sub in the 5 etc
carbon fiber cabinet inside a cabinet..
the list goes on

" What's the crossover frequency and slope of the Swarm system? I understand the xo is before the Swarm amp and all subs operate in the same frequency range, summing up L & R."

Hi lewinskih01,

   I actually own the Audio Kinesis Debra bass system (a very similar system to the Swarm that I bought from James Romeyn Music & Audio in Utah that he is licensed to sell under the Audio Kinesis brand).  Both systems use the same 1K watt sub amp that contains an active xo with a continuously variable low pass cutoff filter that ranges from 20-200 Hz  that I usually set at 40 Hz.  Sorry, I'm not sure of the slope.  All subs operate flat from 20-100 Hz with 113 db output @ 20 Hz, are 4 ohms, are fed the same l+r summed mono signal, have 10" drivers and can handle 600Wrms. 

     Here'a link to the exact Debra bass system I own:

   http://jamesromeyn.com/old-pages/home-audio-gear/dsa-1-0-distributed-subwoofer-array-5-pieces-4k-usd... 

Tim

" noble100 ,
I would not discount the Sub 3 until I listened to it. If Mr. V. discontinues a very good sub in favor of a new one, it must be a significant improvement.
And, Vandersteen's use of an external high pass crossover was very much 'thinking outside of the box' 30 years ago, so maybe Johnny isn't exaggerating.
I understand the concept of using multiple subs to eliminate/ reduce room nodes, but perhaps integrating an equalizer can achieve something the same. As I have not heard, nor know how they are set up, I can't say definitely how well/badly they work.
Maybe they will be in the store when I get some time to go later this summer-along with some other Audiogon members.
Bob"

Hi Bob,

     It was not my intention to criticize the Vandy Sub Three at all.  I  stated the Sub Three seems like a very good sub for $2,500 and it appears to be a worthy replacement for the very good but now discontinued 2QW.
      My main point was that no single sub, not even the most expensive and highest quality sub in existence, is capable of reducing the majority of bass standing waves and resultant bass peaks and nulls in any given room.  In fact, using only a single sub probably creates a net increase in   bass standing waves in most rooms. 
     Unfortunately, an equalizer is not able to eliminate, or compensate for, the vast majority of bass standing waves that inevitably result from having a single sub in a room.  The only scientifically proven methods to reduce bass standing waves in any given room are either expensive, inefficient and bulky bass traps on the back end or the moderately expensive, efficient and much more effective method of multiple subs in a distributed bass array configuration on the front end.    
     Again, I think the Vandersteen Sub Three seems like an excellent sub.  However,  I also think using a minimum of 2 and up to 4 of them will provide the best results.     
    My motivation is just to spread the word about how well the distributed bass array system has worked for me and how it will likely work for others in their rooms using their choice of subs. Deploying 2 subs is good, 3 is better and 4 is best.
   Tim                             

For me what's most important is to have the best experience possible in the sweet spot. How the bass does in other parts of the room is not as important as that precious, precious sweet spot. I think my game plan is to get 1 vandy sub to start with, then add a second once funds recover. (I will put the first one in the corner behind the left front main, then once I get a second, I will put it in the corner behind the right front main). Based off what I've heard I will not find anything as musical as the Vandersteen sub. Being musical is paramount. Although I enjoy home theater and would love to get the "dishes shaking off the shelves" effect, I really only care about how good I can get my 2-channel  analog system to sound.