Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
I'm absolutely shocked that Tuner bill333 would enthusiastically endorse
goeffkait's anti-science rant!

;-)
Well he’s no dummy so I would hope he chooses his words more carefully. But I have never met him. Maybe somebody else has and can answer that one. Maybe this is just his alter-ego?  He likes that we are talking about him though.  That I can assure you.
mapman,

"Carefully" in my experience over the last few days did not translate into "correctly". What can we do? It is like a fun brother you did not ask for, but is around to steal your lollipop every now and then.
I tend to think of him more as the Godzilla of Audiogon. But even Godzilla has his endearing moments. Whoops I’m sure his head is even bigger now being likened to a mighty Kaiju.
On the inimitable Mr. Kait:

I tend not to interact with GK too much, given the spam-level goofiness
that results seems like a waste of time to debate.

For a little while I thought I had him figured out, because the first bunch of posts I read seemed fairly well grounded and actually defending some rational points of view. Given his notorious web site I thought "Oh, so that’s it. This guy is perhaps actually rational and is just having a go at audiophiles with his "products." Cynical, certainly, but a put-on."

But the irrational, poor arguments I’ve seen from him since, and the amount of time he spends putting down "skeptics" had me alter my inference. Looks like I was wrong.

He’s cynical and a joker, of course, so I can still see his products as springing from that mind-set, and often he seems to reference them almost with a wink, without seriousness.

But he’s also given so many bad arguments against skepticism and science that I could also see him as a costumer for his own products!

He’s fun sometimes...loves to take people down a notch....though not nearly as sharp at debate and on top of things as he thinks, so it can get a little embarrassing.

On the other hand, it seems he has experience with lots of equipment and I think he has a technical knowledge in areas I don’t have, so there are still things it would be possible to learn from him. The problem is he dilutes it with so much other mumbo jumbo and irrational ravings, he becomes much less of a trusted valuable resource than he could be.

So to the extent I interact with GK, I would prefer to pick and choose - interacting more with the "on his meds" version vs the "off his meds" version.

That’s about as much time as I would want to spend discussing Mr. Kait :-)