How much do I need to spend to get a preamp that sounds better than no preamp?

@almarg Thank you for your perspective, Al.

As always, you raise an excellent and most salient point in regard to rectifiers.

As I considered what you said, I HAVE noticed the differences between types ("normal diodes" vs HexFred, 5AR4 vs 5U4 vs 5R4 vs 5Z3 vs 5Y3 vs...) far more prominent than variations within those types. I’m sure no one will say that’s noteworthy. While I have clearly observed the differences in voltage drop between them, I now realize I’ve been a bit too sloppy to not have more carefully measured the variation within a type. Thank you for providing a new rabbit to chase down!

Difficult question, I admit, and you could maybe just chalk it up to tubes in general, and why folks compete for valued ones, but do you have any opinions on why different tube rectifiers of the same type exhibit not much difference in performance, yet such wildly different tone? By that I mean, even friends who love to tell me, "Oh, I could never have a decent system because I’m just not good enough to ever be able to hear the differences..." can easily discern changing out a Sovtek vs Shuguang vs JJ vs Mullard 5AR4

@trelja

His answer is only partly true. He couldn’t even bother to wait for JA to post a response to his question, he had to immediately come here and post a click-bait thread on the subject. There was a not quite half-hearted mea culpa near the end of the thread.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/stereophile-no-more-bench-tests
What kind of a person does that? There are plenty of designers and manufacturers that post here and do so respectfully, even when they disagree with another poster. Several even chimed in on the fuse debates. They stated their point and moved on, only replying again if they were directly questioned. Not this guy, he has multiple pages of the same reply over and over, never adding value beyond the first several posts. He apparently doesn’t realize that all members here are potential customers in an ever shrinking market. Why would you ever treat a potential customer that way? Disagree if you must, but be respectful, then leave it at that. No matter how great his product is, I would never give him a dime of my money for just that reason. I would suspect that I am not the only one. Seriously, if that is his method of marketing himself, then he is deranged. And no, I am not a fuser either. My position more closely follows what you believe, Joe.

Trelja 5-20-2018
Difficult question, I admit, and you could maybe just chalk it up to tubes in general, and why folks compete for valued ones, but do you have any opinions on why different tube rectifiers of the same type exhibit not much difference in performance, yet such wildly different tone?

Hi Joe,

All I can offer is the very general thought that with the exception of "absolute maximum" specifications and sometimes heater voltages, most tube parameters are specified just as nominal values (either as numbers or in the form of graphs), with no specification of +/- tolerances or min/max values. As can be seen, for example, in this datasheet for a vintage GE 5AR4. Which leaves room for numerous parameters to differ significantly among tubes of a given type.

And even if the actual values of all of those parameters were known for two or more tubes of a given type that may be compared, analysis of the likely sonic consequences would probably be impractical, as well as being dependent to a significant extent on the design of the specific component the rectifier is being used in.

So what we have to go on in that regard essentially comes down to what can be inferred from empirical evidence that has accumulated over the years. With some grains of salt applied, in part because of the aforesaid component dependence.

Best regards,
-- Al

He couldn’t even bother to wait for JA to post a response to his question, he had to immediately come here and post a click-bait thread on the subject.

Really!!!!, I was asking the question, " Looks like Stereophile may be cutting back on expenses"  operative word being "may", as I’m not in the US and maybe others at Agon had some more info, if the tests going to be stricken,, as they are the most time consuming part and expensive of Stereophile and many mags are getting rid of them to save money in this diminished climate for this type of reading.

And 3 days later I did post this, your the one that needs to be questioned not me. Maybe your a "snake oiler" and just didn’t like what I said in this post.
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/1555737

Cheers George

In the same sentence you also said,   

no more bench testing for measurements and specs to keep the manufacturers and reviewers honest, it'll make you think twice on what to believe now, without the proof to back it up.

Your last post is classic cherry picking...and you are an expert at that. The quote above is a not a maybe statement, it is your presumption of fact. All you really had to do was wait for the answer from the source, JA is pretty good at following up questions. Hey, as long as you get the word out first, it doesn't matter if it's true or not. Kind of like the media these days. When the truth comes out, the best you can do is offer a weak, half hearted statement at a later date. I wasn't offended by your so called apology, I was bothered by your dishonesty at creating the post and your continued attempts to justify it. Your character, or should I say lack thereof, continues to shine through.