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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
glupson
7,842 posts
 
I would add to geoffkait's list...

7. Someone may read your website. Have a good understanding of it.

8. Things are trivial indeed. It is all just about electronic reproduction of music.

9. Always remember that it is good to have someone ahead of you, no matter how slow he may be. He will clear the road for you and you can learn from his mistakes so you do not go the same way.


geoffkait,

What road was that 18-wheeler on? 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

amg56
@geoffkait

A presumption not necessarily true.

I may be in front of your 18 wheeler. Don’t presume that there are people on this thread that are not way ahead, but on their own path.

The mistake on this thread was exactly your presumption made by MG the OP. There are plenty of Audiophiles well ahead on the "road". MG’s opinion of what path may lead he and followers to his Audio Nirvana may not suit other Audiophile’s for whatever reason and that is just fine.

The most important thing is to ENJOY your path....

>>>>An audiophile is judged by his words. Obviously I cannot be there to hear your system. As much as I dislike judging where people It’s been my experience that a great many people, even those of high age and long experience, are quite oblivious to ANY path and uncertain where they ARE or where they are GOING.

I’m going to go out on a limb and I hate to judge before all the facts are in but I’m guessing you probably fall into that category. You know, just judging by what you write. Your words. I suspect you’ve probably been following the wrong.....you know.

🐑 🐑 🐑

You said, “The most important thing is to ENJOY your path.” I say ignorance is BLISS.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
glupson
I would add to geoffkait’s list...

7. Someone may read your website. Have a good understanding of it.

8. Things are trivial indeed. It is all just about electronic reproduction of music.

9. Always remember that it is good to have someone ahead of you, no matter how slow he may be. He will clear the road for you and you can learn from his mistakes so you do not go the same way.

geoffkait,

What road was that 18-wheeler on?

>>>>There is no road. There is no path. There is no Audio Nirvana. Didn’t you get my memo? In order to evaluate WHERE you ARE in the overall context of things one must know HOW he got there and HOW to get WHERE he wants to go. Therein lies the Big Secret. The unspeakable. Things are only trivial if you aren’t a real audiophile. Obviously things are trivial to the guy under the bridge. Don’t ask, don’t tell. 
glupson
7,842 posts
 
geoffkait,

I am confused. There is no road, there is no path?

@amg56

As the bumper sticker on the back of the 18 wheeler 🚛 lumbering up the narrow winding mountain road read, I may be slow but I’m ahead of you.
From your explanation, it is a bliss not to be a true audiophile, whatever that "true audiophile" means. What I meant that it is trivial indeed was that passions get inflamed out of proportion. This thread read as a life-or-death topic and not as some hobby.
jf47t
116 posts
 

Hope you guys had a meaningful holiday.

Michael was playing classical chamber music most of the day and of course said I could come by anytime. When I did the music that was playing was featuring the flute. I believe it was flute, violin, viola and cello with a sprinkling of harpsicord but the flute was taking the lead for sure. MG said "what would you like to hear differently" and I replied that it would be nice if the other instruments moved more forward and present or is that the way the recording was done? "the playback can be almost anyway you want it to be, the content is all there" he said. Michael looked through a drawer of blocks and picked out 4. He placed them underneath the crossover and immediately the flute moved 2 feet back into the mix and mellowed and the strings became fuller featuring the mid and bottom tone of the instruments more. He said give it about an hour to fill in but I was already happy with the change. I went about my day and called to see if MG had moved on from that recording he said no he wanted to see where the settling ended up. I popped in upstairs to give a quick listen. I stayed for the whole recording hunting for the flute solo it wasn't there. All the instruments were now feeding off of each other with equal presence. I have to admit I asked MG if he had switched recordings "nope just let it settle in after the mechanical change". That was another WOW moment for me.

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