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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
glupson
This thread leans away from any semi-tangible topic and becomes a playground for challenging opponent’s personality. Somehow, it started being about formal education credentials. How? Why? What does it have to do with anything? It would be better to stick to the matter discussed than to look for the ways to discredit the opponent as a person. Once one’s argument, about why someone else’s argument is weaker than his own, becomes formal education level and not what was said about the topic itself, that one’s argument may seem as being weak and needing help for the way out of defeat.

>>>>This particular argument is simply a discussion about what an engineer is. And to a certain extent whether traffic engineering courses really involve fluid dynamics and rocket science, which most likely they actually don’t. We’re trying to establish who’s fluffing and who’s bluffing. I actually took a course in the Civil Engineering wing at school, Indeterminant Structures. If amg46 took THAT course I will give him credit.

More specifically and germane to the topic at hand I actually apply engineering principles to my hobby, from fluid dynamics to quantum physics to classical physics/mechanics to optics to long distance communications. I employ empirical testing and the scientific method. I have around twenty (count em) new products since 2012. Five of them involve quantum physics/mechanics. As Fats Domino used to sing, I’m walkin’, yes indeed and I’m talkin’....

Besides, we’ve already agreed air is not flowing in the room so linking traffic engineering to fluid dynamics and cars to air molecules is not only tenuous but also irrelevant.


audiopoint
208 posts
 

I'm surprised you had difficulty tuning.


jf47t - Never alter my statements for your own protocol or intentions as I find that crap quite offensive.

If you properly read my statement, the difficulty was finding time as in hours and minutes in a day to adjust harmonics and not difficulty in “tuning” or turning a couple bolts. I worked concert reinforcement mixing music and sound earning a good living while your most recent favorite person in the world was still in high school so I know how to turn a knob and make changes in musical content.

You and your boss should better review the on-going glamour posts coming out of Las Vegas as they appear to be eerily similar in nature. Like two people are combining efforts and writing styles. It is also blatantly obvious to anyone reading the past four pages of this thread there is a two man team marketing effort being presented here.

Example:

Michael Green

Your a genius! You knew exactly how this thread would develop. You know this hobby's personality better than any of us.

Only you could have made this OP I am convinced.

See what I mean… the OP consistently makes grammatical mistakes like the one above where you jf47t tend to be more correct in the use of proper English. “You're” is the proper spelling so how can we be sure you actually originated this statement and simply did not cut and paste it up from another source?

I am hoping your boss gave you a raise in pay for posting that one. Next up, you might consider taking out a paid advertisement compared to working a forum hoping to attract a couple more clients via this poorly conceived ad campaign which should have been titled ‘talking is talk’.

OK, I'll bite:

Please fill everyone in… what’s special about ‘your’ genius that separates him from the rest of us or are you simply attempting to establish more needless bickering between the very few participants left posting here?

In closing:  

Did you hear the one about the tuning revolution and how it is going to explode and take over the Audio Industry on a global scale? That’s been out there for a long-long time so we are all watching and hoping you can become the latest catalyst to successfully launch it.

As always - Good Listening!

Robert



prof
3,479 posts
 
Whoa, took a peek in here. I’m not back to engage in any extended debate (there isn’t any to be had), but...

...I see audiopoint isn’t falling for the passive-aggressive marketing act going on in this thread. ;-)

Perfectly exemplified by these kind of words from our Guru:

MG wrote:

I’m pretty happy reading through this thread as the OP is playing itself out perfectly.


Yep, that’s exactly the sentiment someone trolling with this thread would express.

1. Drops in with a contentious thread calling out some people as faking it.

2. It’s pointed out that calling people fakes isn’t a promising way to start to a civil discourse, and what do you mean exactly so we can discuss this?

3. Immediately implies the respondent represents the fakers.

4. Continues to drop passive-aggressive baiting replies, suggesting people asking critical questions is a troll, while never addressing the content of posts asking for clarification and posing questions.

5. Watches as thread ignites and becomes contentious. Helps along with more baiting replies negatively commenting on some people’s personalities without addressing the content of their posts.

6. Re-appears to declare himself satisfied and happy with the result - things went "perfectly."

If that isn’t the sentiment of a troll, happy with the scent of a thread on fire, it’s hard to say what else is.

And naturally one of his fawning followers posts support:

jf47t wrote:


Michael Green

Your a genius! You knew exactly how this thread would develop. You know this hobby’s personality better than any of us.

Only you could have made this OP I am convinced.


Actually lauding MG for his brilliance in trolling audiogon! (Which it appears from his disciples that MG does in his spare time, when not walking on water..)

Excellent work helping MG troll the forum, fj47t! You were clearly made for each other.

But if you pay a bit more attention to some of the replies here, it may be time to re-think your marketing strategy.






geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
glupson
It is not as simple as just adjusting traffic lights and building new roads. For example, The Beltway in the Washington DC metro area. No traffic lights to adjust. Road made wider in some places, and still thousands curse it every day. And the narrow part has been narrow for years (at around 270) and the reason is not some lowly traffic engineer. It is not that simple to build a new road. A lot goes into that, too.

>>>>Actually the reasons the Beltway is SO much better than before are because they widened the existing highway, built new highways, built new cloverleafs and offered “pay as you go” high speed open lanes during peaks hours. So, I guess you could say it is as simple as adjusting traffic lights and building new roads after all. 😬 Besides what people curse is Rt 66, not the Beltway.
jf47t
116 posts
 

Robert and Prof

Michael does walk on water fairly well :)

He’s also a very happy camper which it doesn’t appear you two are doing so well with that. Michael is also an excellent marketer! It comes natural to him. When you love what you do and your as good at it as he is some people are going to love it and some are going to be in a rage about it. I doubt rage makes a dent on Michael with the exception that he doesn’t hang out with hostile personalities.

Let me also add this, it's a thread guys. Some of you treat this forum like the last word spoken with anger wins. But when you write on a public site, it's there for all to see. Front to back side to side.

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