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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,198 posts
 
Cool.  Admitting one's shortcomings is always step 1.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Exactly! I’m proud of you and glad to see you admit it. Finally! Next step, seek help.
jf47t
116 posts
 

Some of you get it (I think), but the majority of posters still haven't a clue. The on lookers who have emailed Michael "get it". MG said this is exactly what would happen (watch) on this thread. Here's the OP

"Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite"

brilliant MG! 

glupson
7,842 posts
 
Whatever it has been, I am much more puzzled by sudden appearance of jf47t. That seems like a hit job. It was like a character assassination. Gradually trying to portray Michael Green as a weirdo incapable of almost anything but listening to music. To me, Michael Green leaves an impression of a person who can engage in polite conversation, probably pleasant to hang out with in real life, and trying to promote and support his opinions, regardless of if you agree with them or not and regardless if he answers directly or not. jf47t just made him seem like some really strange human which, I think, is not fair.
prof
3,473 posts
 
jf47t,


Some of you get it (I think), but the majority of posters still haven’t a clue
.

Y’know....

If I had tried to communicate an idea and the majority of people reading it didn’t have a clue about what I was saying, if I was honest with myself the first thing I’d ask is: Hmm...maybe some of the problem lies with me. It looks like I probably didn’t communicate my idea clearly enough.

That seems like a more intellectually honest way to evaluate the problem, rather than to always presume the problem lies in most other people, and to find ways to cast aspersions at those who didn’t understand (as negative, trolls, etc), instead of go back to the drawing board and try to clarify the meaning for those who are asking.

I wonder why MG and the rest of the tuners seem unable to take any responsibility for the pages of confusion that have resulted from their method of discourse.

MG said this is exactly what would happen (watch) on this thread. Here’s the OP


Wait...Michael Green created an obviously contentious thread, knowing it would be contentious???!!!

That’s it, you’ve convinced all of us! Michael is BRILLIANT!!!!!!

Thanks so much for repeating the OP. It worked so well the first time (and the second and third), I can see why you want to keep reposting it.

BTW jf47t, if I implied you were lying about something, wouldn’t it be incumbent upon me to explain exactly what you are lying about...rather than just throw out the accusation? Isn’t that bit of decency what integrity demands?

On that note: Is there any reason you can’t bring yourself to answer the question I asked: If I am"faking it"(as Michael and other tuners have continually implied) in this audio hobby...what am I faking? 

What, for instance, have I claimed to do or know, that you know to be false or a deception?


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