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Beware the audio guru

There are a few contributors to these forums who apparently see themselves as gurus. They speak in absolutes, using words such as "always" and "never." They make pronouncements about products or techniques they’ve never heard or experienced, justifying their conclusions because contrary claims are "impossible" or "snake oil." Those who disagree are accused of being "deluded," or suffering some insurmountable bias, or attempting to further some commercial agenda. On occasion, they have taunted detractors with an appeal that they engage in a wager - one guy wanted $25,000 cash up front and an agreement drafted by lawyers. Another offered 5-to-1 odds.

I am not going to tell you who to believe. But for anyone who might be uncertain about sorting out conflicting claims here, I suggest they consider the behavior of experts in other fields. No good doctor offers a 100 percent guarantee on any treatment or surgical procedure, even if medical science suggests success. No good attorney will tell you that you have a case that positively can’t be lost, even if the law appears to be on your side. No true professional will insult you for the questions you ask, or abandon you if you seek a second opinion.

A doctor conducts his own tests. An engineer makes his own measurements. Neither will insist the burden of documentation falls upon you.

These might be details to consider as you sift through the many conflicting claims made on Audiogon. In short: Decide for yourself. Don’t let other people tell you how to think, or listen.
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whart
3,064 posts
 
@frogman - re your observation #2, I think it underscores that all the gear fiddling is a hobby for its own sake and may be related to better sound reproduction in a "test" setting, but is not necessarily connected to the enjoyment of music. In fact, the two pursuits (gear and music) may sometimes be at odds: for example, believing a tweak makes a system quieter, and thus correlates to improved performance. Often, I’ve found the opposite to be true- the deadening of components against electrical and mechanical interference often robs the system of musical life. But, I say that in passing as one of several experiences I’ve had over the years, and hardly an "absolute" given the infinite number of variables in various systems. (I’m not anti-tweak, but do find that one has to consider the cumulative changes that are wrought by multiple tweaks in a system- we add one to another and don’t often judge their impact standing alone).

As I have aged, I’ve become less interested in gear for gear-sake and more interested in listening for enjoyment. They are two related but not congruent pursuits. The equipment is merely the vehicle to transport you, rather than an end unto itself. (Though I totally understand the interest and obsession with gear- it is fun in its own right, but to come back to your observation #2, not necessarily connected to music).
teo_audio
2,197 posts
 
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision."

- Bertrand Russel
prof
3,480 posts
 
^^^^^ Wise words from B Russel.

Doubt is an essential part of both critical thinking and open mindedness.   You have to be able to at least entertain doubt about your own position in order to alter it when better information comes olong.   That’s why a form of procedural doubt is built into the scientific method, and it’s why it features so heavily in philosophy.

I just wish I saw more of this among high end audio hobbiests, but in the more subjective world of high end enthusiasts, doubt tends to be incorrectly percieved as close mindedness of not outright negative dogmatism.  And even suggesting doubt about the perception reported by others is rallied against:  who are YOU to tell me my ears aren’t hearing what they hear!”

Among many audiophiles, their own perception is inviolate, it is the undoubted bedrock upon which any inference stands. 
“If you can’t measure what I say I’m hearing, the problem is in the science of the measuring, certainly not in my own perception!”

Again, a little more humility and doubt in ones own inferences and perception is not a bad thing.

And this applies to anyone, including and especially those who would be seen as “gurus.”
fleschler
2,029 posts
 
I am not an audio guru.  Even my engineer friend is not a guru, although usually correct, he is constantly learning new technology to apply to his products.  I don't think anyone is an audio guru I can trust 100%.  Plus, the guru's hearing maybe different from mine, so his/her perception of sound can be very different (and choice of music can be extremely different).  Same thing in food taste.  A master chef produces food that maybe on a high innovative level but not to everyone's taste.  


prof
3,480 posts
 
fleschler,

Good points.

On one hand I think someone who truly has reached a level of expertise and who has contributed to our knowledge - for instance about audio - deserves recognition and respect.

On the other hand, as you mention, the expert’s aims, criteria or subjective asssesment may not align perfectly with our own.

It reminds me of some interaction I’ve had with Floyd Tool who is about as close to an audio guru as there may be in terms of his work in audio and listener perception.

I have huge respect for his work.  He’s determined so much about how to predict listener preferences in loudspeaker design.

And yet I am left puzzling when I listen to a speaker line like Revel, designed using all the techniques Tool has handed them;   Why don’t I like those speakers more?
I mean, they certainly sound massively competent, yet they fail to grab me in ways many other speaker lines have which were not constructed via Tool’s research.

In no way does my own preference amount to a repudiation of Tool’s work, but it is a reminder to me that no matter how much compelling theory and experiment may support a product, there are still variables - particularly with speakers - that means theory won’t replace personal auditions.
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