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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
klh007
621 posts
 
WCSS, Please give the Neolith/Ref 10/Krell system a go!
audiolabyrinth's avatar
audiolabyrinth
4,555 posts
 
@whitecamaross,  I asked you a question in my last post to you🤓😀
jafox
1,453 posts
 

I have read this thread off and on for the last year or so in hopes that there might be an amplifier here that ultimately stood out for the test of time.  And now that I prepare to take on a similar quest for the “great” amp for the speakers that I recently purchased for a basement music system. I truly do not know where to start other than to consider retubing the CAT JL3’s that I have sitting on the sidelines.

The OP’s system changes so frequently with rarely a mention of the system’s full configuration at the time of each “shootout” that it is impossible for anybody to come away with any thoughts of what to focus one’s attention.  From reading this thread, I would conclude that the OP spends more time packing, unpacking, shipping, receiving, connecting. disconnecting, etc., audio equipment than the time spent listening to music.  And how long does a component ever “equalize” in the listening environment after it is unpacked?  With temperature and humidity differences between the shipper’s vehicle and warehouse, and seasonal influences, having newly arrived electronics sit in the listen room for several hours before powering on is simply common sense.  Taking a box just received after an across-the-country or overseas shipment, unpacking the component and then immediately powering it on is simply asking for trouble!

A few weeks ago, the OP wrote, “I’m very selective and know what each component can do. “

This is interesting as I have had the Aria WV5 XL preamp for 10 years now and I still don’t know all that it can do!  With a new TT/Arm after owning the last one for 18 years, I have discovered how incredible the MM and MC stages are in the WV5 vs. how I felt when I received this unit.  Awe yes, the incremental system changes since then.

And also from the OP: “I am blessed to have enough credibility after writing here for last few years.”  

Unless I am missing something, I don’t see any credibility in making such generalizations such as this amp has the “best bass” or it destroyed amp Z, the most lethargic speakers I ever heard, the sound was fatiguing that I could not listen any more, etc., etc., without giving the reader a full description of the system (including ALL cables) at that point in time.  And certainly not to make such conclusions after just an hour or so after inserting it into one’s system.  The jaw-dropping moment that occurs upon first hearing a component or a system is all too frequently gone an hour or day later.  When you can listen to your system for hours and hours on a regular basis, and can’t turn it off, that’s an achievement that no jaw-dropping event can ever surpass.  But for a system always in flux, this can never be achieved.

And what about the speaker you loved so much 2 months ago?  How might it sound today with the new line stage you are now using vs. the one you had when you “rated” that previously awesome speaker the “best”?  Maybe it will now have the best bass you ever heard in your system?

A number of problems, that I face every time I try a new component or even move a component, are not addressed much if at all by the OP.  What about warm up time?  Does the amp need a half hour, 4 hours, all day, etc., to truly come to life?  Is it economically sensible to own “this” amp if it draws a lot of idle power and needs to be on all the time?  Or one advantage of such an amp is that it sounds incredible after just a short warm up time?  Powering down both amps to be compared and then re-powered the next day and do some evaluations as to which one sounds awesome in a short time.  Do I really want to wait until 11pm for my beloved amp to sound good, or do I keep it on all the time while I receive electric bills that cause such entirely different jaw-dropping moments?

Did the amp audition include trying different ICs between the line stage and amp?  Were different speaker cables tried or other power cords into the amp? My experience in building audio systems is that the most crucial cable in the system is between the line stage and amp.  All other cables can and do make significant changes, but they are way down “the influence chain” from this crucial link.  Just as the OP writes about an amp “destroying” another amp, I can very easily destroy all the 3D magic of that system by simply inserting in that link any number of “crappy” ICs that have gotten rave reviews.  That for the OP will likely be another jaw dropping moment.

And yes, power cords can make a substantial improvement.  The Dream State Dream Catcher is one power cable that is crazy incredible no matter where I have tried it.  As the OP claims a $5k power cord is ridiculous, but wouldn’t someone with that mindset also think that a preamplifier (ARC Ref 10) at $30k for example, to also be ridiculous?  After all, it’s just a stupid box that switches line sources and provides for level control?  Just as I can buy a $9 power cord from Home Depot, I can buy a source switcher/volume control for $100 on ebay.  

Has one’s system which has been optimized for much detail now become almost unlistenable because the amp “under review” has the same attributes/signature?  ….. too much of a good thing or bad thing?  Or does this amp’s detail bring on a good balance between the warmth, decays, etc., with the rest of the system that has been assembled up to that point?  Dismissing a product at a given time is often because it simply does not mate well with our system at that moment and not because another product is better or the best.  It’s not about synergy, which is such a lame word here…it’s about personal preferences and compromises that we all must make with one set of pros/cons of the product under evaluation to the product currently in the system.  

And I don’t buy into the claim that one must use all components from one brand.  I have assembled too many systems (phono, line, amp) of multiple brands that result in far more magic than what I heard from the one brand.

What about the issue of system disruption.  Every time components are moved on the equipment rack, cables are being disconnected/re-connected, re-routed, under, over, across, others, including power cords, along, under, components.  And when all is ready to be powered on with the listener all relaxed on sofa with remote volume in hand ....... damn ……….. hum!  This is more frequent that would be expected.  Some effort to re-route cables nearly always resolves the problem within an hour or so, but still it’s a reality and a major pain.  Simply dropping a “new” amp into the rack is not quite as easy as the OP makes it sound - well not from my experiences anyway.  Having the amp in it’s own “semi-environment” such as between the speakers allows for easier change and less disruption to the rest of the system setup.  But still, doing this what looks to be daily, would result in never getting a chance to optimize the system as it is at any one moment.

And then there’s the issue of power conditioners.  The OP stated last week, “Update: the c900u and m900u components need to be connected to the wall. DO NOT CONNECT THEM TO A STUPID POWER CONDITIONER OR POWER REGENERATOR.  I did this and they lost magic. Now they are connected into the wall and they are back to sounding huge.”  

A reference to which conditioner used here would have put the statement into context.  But one easy conclusion to be made here is that no conditioner can possibly work with these products, or perhaps no conditioner with any amp.  Again, component and system context is crucial here if the writing is to provide any value other than “I did this, I did that”.  

I have little experience experimenting with power amps into conditioners, and certainly I have no interest to “play” with a stupid conditioner.  The CAT JL3’s that I have had for many years were always plugged into the wall.  But after trying many conditioners and discovering the awesome (killer value) Running Springs (RS) Haley for the preamp and sources, I did a little reading about the RS Duke conditioner that was designed to be used with amps.  I still am curious to try one of these.  But one thing I will never do is to conclude that any or all conditioners will result in the same outcome.  Now that would be stupid.

Another challenge I see for the OP is to try to achieve top-notch musical performance while wrapping in all the other required components for a home theater setup.  This out of the gate is riddled with compromises.  It can take years and years to achieve a music system with awesome dimensional results.  This for many is what putting together a musical system is all about.  But a home theater is more about frequency extremes and dynamics.  Speaker placement, such as putting them way out into the room for music can be ultra critical whereas for Home Theater, the sound effects we are after here can be achieved with little or no effort.  And all the extra electronics, cabling, surround speakers, subwoofers, etc., all over the room can affect the magic we achieved with our music system before all this HT crap was added.  I tried this and I simply could not achieve what I wanted for either music or HT, and thus back to two systems.  For many people out there, only one room is available for all of this and such compromises must be made.

John


jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks John, I take all criticism well and it does not bother me at all whether there is good or bad feedback. You can’t please everyone in life. You can’t please everyone in your family can you? it is part of everyday living. I share my best feelings and without being "sentimental". I have built quite a few nice set ups for many of my followers and each they they communicate with me for a reason. I can’t come here and type everything i know and not get any rewards... I am a busy person and have a job, a life, a family, etc. If i were to put down on paper every single detail of what i own, don’t own, how many hours i have on each component, how long i had the amplifier before i listened, etc then this becomes a full time job and to be quite blunt, i am not getting a penny.
This thread should be for you to sit down, digest and you make your own decision on what your next piece of equipment should be. I am not here to make sure each person gets EXACTLY what they need. That is what dealers are for and they are the ones who will put that kind of time and resources because they will profit from you which is how it should be. They need to get compensated for their knowledge and advice so you dont have to do this a full time job for you.
Remember, i build systems, help others, recommend based on my sole experience and those audiophiles are very happy with what i have recommended/built for them because they literally leapfrogged all the crappy stuff in the middle. The person who bought my Rowlands is a long time follower who started with luxman. The gentleman who bought my ref10 and other items is also a follower. They are people who text me, communicate when something is wrong, ask for tweaks/advice etc and yes i also need to make a little something in order to justify the family time i am missing out on. That said, only very few people understand this and these are the people who i tend to help to the best of my knowledge. In the end, my notes on this forum and this long thread are a "condensed" version of my deep knowledge. Kinda like a "free trial" version of a software where you are only getting certain features to function and not the full version.
If i were to put full effort into helping each and every one who reads this so they can have the best set up given your taste, finances, room size, etc then when do i sleep? when do i watch my daughter grow? Unfortunately, the good ol' saying " time is money" is very true. 
stevermanjohnson
18 posts
 
I agree with John (jafox).  Aren't you guys getting tired of the constant pump & dump by this guy? I can't believe people fall for his BS. I can't believe people would actually buy something based on what he writes. His speakers. His room. His MO. Wait a week and something better comes along only after he's sold the past flavor of the day and made a profit after pumping it up.


Are you starved for advice or just lazy?  Make your own decisions and stop falling for this guys scam.

What a joke.


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