One more fourteen hour flight on my way back from China and with dicey WiFi. Spending a Fourth of July in that country, as interesting as it is, made the fact that posting on sites like Audiogon is blocked by their government particularly meaningful. So, catching up on the posts of the last few days; good way to pass the time.
First, thanks all for all the great clips.
Rok,
**** Did Ellington know before hand, what Gonsalves would blow, during his ’interval’ at Newport? ****
Later:
**** Since this was such an important moment for the Ellington Band, I just wondered if The Duke knew it was coming. ****
Two completely different questions, no? I already explained why Duke might know some of what Gonsalves would blow because I don’t think a simple “yes” would have been very meaningful. That nuts and bolts thing is the only way to explain why Duke might know. In answer to your second question:
Of course he would have known it was coming. Solo orders or who is going to be featured is always preplanned; especially for recordings. That chart was Gonsalves’ feature and Duke always introduced it as such.
**** This music was first played in the whore houses of New Orleans. So, to which "Technical elements" or "Technical flaws" are you referring? ****
I’m sure there was both good and bad playing at places like Ruby’s. I find that sometimes bad playing (or singing) gets a free pass because the music fits into a certain style or time period that the particular listener happens to like a lot. Imo, there are too many examples of great music with playing that is without significant technical flaws to bother with the flawed. “There’s usually a reason why...”. But, that’s just me.
**** The ’putdown’ that Pops was ’just an entertainer’ was started by the so-called ’angry’ progressive/noise makers from the NYC Jazz crowd. ****
I don’t think so. This was a notion held by people with limited knowledge about the music and its history; and how it evolved. They would see Pops on television and that is pretty much the extent of the association. This misconception began well before there were any what you consider “noisemakers”. The significance of Louis Armstrong in jazz has always been understood by anyone who has more than very casual appreciation of it and its history; and his place in it is just as significant as things like the fact that Bird and Diz “invented” bebop.
Alex, I saw Johnny Griffin twice at the Village Vanguard back in the late ‘80s. His playing was fantastic, but I can’t really say that it was “better” than what I hear in his recordings.
You ask some interesting questions.
**** Does the lack of interaction with ’public’ and life itself on more intimate and every day level makes the todays jazz different than one from before? ****
While I am not sure I would characterize it as “lack of interaction”, the answer has to be “of course”. Art is always a reflection of the times; this has been discussed before, However, that is not what determines its ultimate quality. Any one listener may not like what the music is saying (reflecting), but it may still be great music; and that same listener may or may not appreciate that fact.
**** Is it possible for an art form to grow without such relation and does that makes jazz ’dead’ except as an form of expression of people who are practicing it ? ****
Jazz is growing. Again, one may not like it, but it’s growing alright. And contrary to a recent mistaken assertion it is growing in the US probably more than anywhere else. As it should be; it’s its birthplace.
**** But, their form of expression is very different
Is it possible to apply the same analogy to jazz, because except for the same instrumets and similar conception in performance, we are looking/hearing at two very different types of music, but we are calling them by the same name? ****
Much of Coltrane’s music is every bit as, or more, “different” from the music of Louis Armstrong or even Charlie Parker. Are they not both “Jazz”?
Thanks for the link to the book; I will check it out.
As far as some of the other notable posts go, I was reminded recently by someone very wise of this great George Bernard Shaw quote:
”I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it. ...”
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One of my favorite tenor sounds; and one of the all-time greatest story tellers. He kills me every time with the way he builds a solo like a great story:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLP9osh3Z1g&list=PLE1SK0O9FkE6WskguWMTWEFvrz0UZiJOU&index=2
