Jazz for aficionados

When you are talking about "Jazz", you are also talking about "Super Creativity"; that's why they have so much respect for one another. Jazz musicians are born, not made; nothing I can think of would enable a musician to get on a bandstand in front of a crowd of people, without knowing what he's going to play, and blow them away.

That's what I've seen hardbop jazz musicians do; of course it took most of the waking moments of their lifetime to do that, but never the less, they finally arrived at that moment.

Dollar Brand

Rok, how about addressing the specific question instead of condescending lectures. Let’s see, you won’t take what Mingus has to say seriously, but we are to take your judgmental lectures seriously. Is that it? Now, let’s focus; shall we?

You stated that Brubeck was part of the ”culture war”. You choose to call it a “war”. That’s fine, and I and all here, I’m sure, are well aware of the cultural changes (negative and positive) that have been taking place. Additionally, don’t be so quick to suggest you are the only one that understands history. The relationship between iazz and race is well understood by anyone that cares about this music, as is its huge positive impact on race relations; one of the most prominent and important topics discussed in “music school propaganda”, btw. Check your arrogance at the door, please; you just might learn something yourself. Back to Brubeck:

Again, how exactly is Brubeck part of this “culturel war”? How is someone who was so admired and who brought so much to the music a negative force in all this? Your comments seem to connect the subject of race to Brubeck’s influence in the scheme of things. How was a musician who was such a staunch advocate of race equality and so admired by other musicians and listeners of all races a negative influence in all this?
Please, don’t cop out with “you don’t understand this or that”. Specifics, please.

rok2id
Yes unless you are more specific I don't see the connection between Brubeck and so-called cultural war either. BTW be careful quoting Ken Burn's "Jazz" as a historical reference. When a purported documentary of jazz history makes no mention of Bill Evans in its content , or his place in jazz history and the musicians he influenced it can hardly be called accurate. Also when a documentary of jazz places no emphasis on any jazz past the hard bop period it also lacks credibility.

orpheus10
I feel your characterization of frogman as a "troll" was inaccurate and unwarranted. Just because someone holds a different position than yours or expresses thought that may question an analysis or statement made does not make them a troll.
If there is one positive trait I have developed as an adult it is EMPATHY, the ability to hear and attempt to understand another persons position or feeling even though I may not agree. I used to have a position that my feeling or my attitude towards a subject was the ONLY one and anyone who disagreed was wrong. I have given that up over a lifetime of meeting many people.
Jazz is a complicated music and a complicated subject. I understand your definition of "soul" in jazz although I don't agree with it.  I saw an old Dick Cavett show recently where he interviewed Miles Davis whom he asked "is playing jazz the expression of oppressed minorities" and Davis stated it was not. I am sure there are other musicians who feel differently. So too with critics, jazz listeners and fans alike.
If everyone could have an open mind about the subject of jazz and keep away from the personal attacks I feel the give and take between those who post could have a more positive outcome.