Affordable Processor with Fabulous 2 Channel ?


Gang,

I'm using my Mytek Brooklyn DAC as a pre for music and TV. It is fabulous sounding but I really would like to have 5.1 channel surround, and a single remote! 

Is there an affordable processor (used OK) that has at least as good 2 channel performance? Emotiva is right out. I owned one, and it sounded thin as paper. I note that there are a lot of Krell processors for sale at reasonable prices. 

Thoughts?

Erik
erik_squires
Well, if 2-channel is your top priority I'd do it a little differently in an effort to put more of your budget toward stereo and less on the multichannel electronics.  If this sounds like you, read on.  And if not, just disregard.

With your budget I'd buy a Yamaha RX-A870 (a pretty respectable AVR with a good track record of reliability unlike many others, and you'll get all the latest tech versus an older prepro) from Accessories4Less for $550 and use that for multichannel processing duties and amplification for your center and surrounds if needed.  With the remaining $1500 or so I'd buy a good, used stereo preamp with a HT bypass input.  You may already know this, but you can then just hook the front L/R preouts from the AVR (which the RX-A870 has) to the HT bypass input on the stereo pre and you're done.  You can then seamlessly switch between stereo and multichannel just by changing the input on the stereo pre, and the best part is that for critical 2-channel listening the AVR is completely out of the the signal path.  Best of both worlds!  Only downside is that you'll need one additional pair of interconnects to connect the AVR to the stereo pre (that you may have lying around anyway), and you'll have one additional box in your system -- if that's an issue.  I used this setup for years before I had a dedicated listening room and it was a lifesaver -- even my wife could use it without a problem, and that's saying something.  

Ok, if you're with me so far, right now there's a Pass Labs X-2.5 and a Hegel P20 for sale here for around $1500, and I think both offer a HT bypass.  Frankly, with your wonderful DAC I think you'll get much more out of its performance capabilities in critical 2-channel listening with either of these steeeo pres than any prepro you'll get for $2k, at least IMHO.  

As as for the remote, I'd drop a few bucks on a decent universal remote that will make your life a little easier and more pleasurable on a daily basis than any remote you're likely to get from a prepro.  If the Yamaha comes with a learning remote you might be able to just get by with that though. 

FWIW, this is absolutely what I'd do if 2-channel is your priority.  Best of luck!


I second Soix advise and it’s very true on lower end pre pros from Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo/Integra, Anthem. These pre pros two-channel performances for stereo music playbacks are compromised and these pre pros are meant to be used for HT. that’s their main design philosophies.

But high end pre pros like the Classe SSP 800, Classe Sigma SSP, Bryston SP3, Meridian Ref 861 v8 are great for both stereo and surrounds (HT) and can function as high end stereo preamps.

I was going to recommend the Bryston SP3 to the OP (Eric_Squires) but the SP3 is expensive ($9500 retail price) and is a current model, so even if you could find a used one it would be still pricey. The Bryston SP3’s stereo performance is even better than both Classe (SSP 800 & Sigma SSP) pre pros.

The Meridian Ref 861 v8 pre pro is even way more expensive around $32k brand new, But its stereo performance is spectacular.

Expensive processors such as Datasat and Trinnov are phenomenal for HT but I don’t think they put priority on stereo performances. Today Datasat & Trinnov are probably the best HT processors you can get for strictly HT use.

Both the Classe SSP 800 & Sigma SSP stereo performances for stereo music playbacks are on par with high end stereo preamps that are in the $5k range IMO. Their stereo performances aren’t compromised at all like those lower end pre pros from Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo/Integra, Anthem.
Actually the Classe Sigma SSP is optimized for stereo listening.
People who bought the Sigma SSP put priority on stereo performance for music playbacks.
Unless if you plan on getting expensive stereo preamps that cost upwards of $7k and up, then yes they would most likely be better than stereo performances of the Classe Sigma SSP or the SSP 800. No doubt.
@caphill -

Might be worth clarifying that you mean digital compression, and decompression, vs. dynamic range compression. :D

Not the same thing. 

The theory is some devices suffer more jitter due to the varying amounts of CPU processing decompression takes. 

I do like to use something like the Wyred4Sound remedy for those devices. Works like a charm.

Best,

Erik

I'm not entirely convinced of everything that caphill is stating.  He does have many good points, but I think it's easy to get hung up on the idea that "costs more = better quality".  The lower priced Marantz processors are very good designs, but they do have their "warm" Marantz sound.  Nothing wrong with that.  Big power supply and lots of localized power supply filtering, discrete analog output stages.

The Meridian / Dataset / Trinnov are all seriously expensive, but they make their money on a combination of perception, DSP processing and upgradability.  As far as I have been able to investigate, both Meridian and Trinnov still use op-amp based analog stages.  The Dataset has massive amounts of DSP (6 individual ARC DSP processing chips), but I don't think they have really put much into the analog stages.  Datasat really came from a movie theater product, which has completely different and complex sound processing requirements.  I remember reading posts from someone who had a Meridian processor and had a Datasat brought in for demo in his house, completely with a Datasat engineer to calibrate.  The end result was nice, but he did not feel that the Datasat offered him anything over the Meridian in sound quality.

The Bryston SP3 does have some pretty nice Class A discrete analog stages, but again it is a different sound.  I have had the SP3 and it is very laid back.  Massive amounts of bass, but the mids/highs just don't have impact.  I think the digital/DAC card is compromised as well - they used an off-the-shelf DSP/DAC card instead of designing their own.  Bryston definitely sounds decent, but not my cup of tea.

In all of my testing, Class A discrete analog stages always were superior over normal op-amp based.  But you need to have a system that has the resolution to show this difference.  That being said, there are also different flavors of Class A sonic signature (Krell vs Bryston vs Pass Labs, etc.).  It really depends on the sound you're looking for.

The Classe SSP and Sigma are very nice processors, but they do use the LM4562 op amp for audio stages (which is same as LM49720).  Although it is in a fully balanced configuration.  I think the Classe stuff would probably be about the best you can get for resolution in an op-amp based processor without going to a Krell design (S1200).

@auxinput

I wasn’t implying that the more expensive = the better. Of course does not always work that way. For example, the Classe Sigma SSP stereo performance is actually better than the much more expensive Classe SSP 800 according to many people. I know we are talking about two different generation processors here. But I have to admit that the SSP 800 performs better than the Sigma SSP in surrounds for HT use when using HDMI inputs perhaps partly due to all true differential or fully balanced design for all channels on the SSP 800 vs only the front LR channels on the Sigma SSP. Also partly due to better DAC implementation and configurations and power supplies on the SSP 800 maybe. Perhaps the SSP 800 has better DSP?

But when used as an analog stereo preamp thus bypassing DAC, DSP, and other digital processings lots of people said that in fact the Sigma SSP sounded better than the much more expensive SSP 800 when using stereo analog audio inputs (XLR) and both processors are in analog bypass mode. Classe also claimed the same.

So that being said I think the Classe Sigma SSP will be suitable for the OP since he’s looking for a processor that sounds great in two-channel playbacks for music and the used first original version of the Sigma SSP in after market can be had for less than $3k since it does not support the latest surround formats eg Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, Auro 3D nor 4K video pass through, HDR, hdcp 2.2. The original msrp was $5k. It’s now been replaced by the Sigma SSP Mk2 which supports the latest formats and the current retail price goes up to $6k brand new. Classe upgraded audio video boards with the Mk2.

The same to be said for the Bryston SP3 processor. When I heard it the SP3 was used as an analog stereo preamp using its XLR analog audio inputs in analog bypass mode. They had a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC as a digital front end source component at the time feeding the Bryston SP3 via XLR analog audio. IMO it sounded really good coming from a HT processor but I have never tried the Bryston SP3 for surrounds using its HDMI inputs or never tried its digital inputs at all, so had no idea how it sounded using its digital inputs thus using its DAC, DSP, etc. When used as an analog stereo preamp using its stereo analog audio input (XLR) IMO the Bryston SP3 sounded better than both Classe SSP 800 & Sigma SSP.
The Bryston SP3 is similarly priced as the original msrp of the SSP 800.

In regards to Datasat and Trinnov processors I completely agree with you they both are great for surround processings for HT use but their analog stages are not any better than the Classe or the Bryston SP3 or the Meridian Ref 861 v8. I think I also mentioned that in my earlier post.

In regards to Marantz AV8802 processor, yes it sounded good for HT use when using its HDMI inputs but when we tried its stereo analog audio inputs (XLR) again fed by a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC via analog it wasn’t quite in the same league as the Bryston SP3 or the Classe Sigma SSP or the SSP 800 or the Meridian Ref 861 v8.
We still felt the need for a dedicated high end analog stereo preamp for stereo listening to music. But yes the Marantz AV8802 performed very good for surrounds for HT (movies) especially for the money.

I an still using the Classe SSP 800 in my dedicated home theater room paired with all Classe Delta series amplifiers (class AB) driving all B&W 800 D3 series speaker system and they sounded spectacular together. But this is strictly for HT use. I have a separate dedicated stereo setup and system in a separate dedicated stereo listening room which consists of completely different gears.
I am about to get rid of my Classe SSP 800 as it’s getting obselete.
I’ll be looking for a new processor that can decode Dolby Atmos & DTS-X pretty soon.