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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


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michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Kosst says

"Perspective.... I feel like it's been totally lost. Folks who don't even know what kind of resistors their amp has are debating the most nuanced characteristics of a piece of wire or a block of wood. I don't understand that. Which one is really the more meaningful "walk"?"

(that was a good post btw)

My answer is "all of them". When TAS wrote "I witnessed the revolutions first volley" they were talking about my statement "everything affects everything else". It was the beginning of not a new chapter but the next chapter that included every part of The Audio Trilogy.

to the whole gang

If you would, keep in mind I have no part in your debates here. I'm not a part of any camp you guys have drawn the line in the sand over. That's your ballgame and yours alone. My ballgame is "everything affects everything else". That's why you don't see me in those threads that asks what is the most important part of a system. And if I ever was you would read me saying "every part is a part of every other part". Those are the types of questions that get asked in the beginning of our hobby not the more advanced part. The simple truth is, as we walk more we learn there is a lot more walking we can do. We can choose to not go as far as someone else, but we can't "know" until we walk.

Michael Green

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

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michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Analogluvr you said

" I questioned the veracity of Elizabeth’s claim that she can hear the difference between different electrical receptacles."

Actually Elizabeth is correct. Even back in the late 70’s we would wire studios a certain way with certain outlets to benefit the sound. It was and is a meticulous science (art really). Knowing what to listen for is key and you are saying "you can’t hear the difference" is what I would be more concerned about, If I were to compare Elizabeth’s account vs yours in this matter.

When you guys call "snake oil" you do understand that you are calling almost every serious recording venture from the 50’s through the 90’s a hoax? I guess you can even call recording of the digital age hoax as well, but in the earlier recording years especially there was all kinds of sonic tweaks going on that were pretty creative.

I can't say everyone out there doing tweaks is legit, but what I can say when I read a lot of guys throwing out their "snake oil" card, they're really throwing out their "get out of jail free" card cause they have never done a true exploration of their audio chain past plug & play.

Michael Green

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cleeds
6,019 posts
 
michaelgreenaudio

Analogluvr you said

" I questioned the veracity of Elizabeth’s claim that she can hear the difference between different electrical receptacles."

Actually Elizabeth is correct. Even back in the late 70’s we would wire studios a certain way with certain outlets to benefit the sound ... When you guys call "snake oil" you do understand that you are calling almost every serious recording venture from the 50’s through the 90’s a hoax?

It took me a while to understand that when users here bleat "snake oil," they are usually saying, "I don’t understand how this works." When they cry "fraud," they typically mean, "I’m too inexperienced or lazy to figure it out."


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michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi Cleeds

"It took me a while to understand that when users here bleat "snake oil," they are usually saying, "I don’t understand how this works." When they cry "fraud," they typically mean, "I’m too inexperienced or lazy to figure it out."

Yep, it's obvious (entertaining to a point) to folks reading as well.

mg

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