Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?


Hi,

I'd love to hear the impressions of people who've actually spent some time with these speakers to share their sense of their plusses and minuses. Mapman here on Audiogon is a big fan, and has shared lots on them, but I'm wondering who else might be familiar with them.
rebbi
Al, what you describe seems to me to be an argument against the goal of a system that measures flat in-room since the measuring is inaccurate, unless there's some measurement device that avoids or compensates for reflected sound.
Yes, exactly, although I wouldn't say "avoids." I would say the measurements, and the analysis of the measurements, need to take into account arrival time as well as frequency domain characteristics. Some computer programs will do that, to an approximation that apparently can sometimes be useful (I haven't used any of them myself).
I just listen and go with what pleases me.
You're doing the right thing!

Best regards,
-- Al
This is a very hot debate and I'm not sure I have much to contribute except that I've owned both passive and active loudspeakers (Emerald Physics 2.3s)and a long list of internet available speakers (Axiom 80's, OHM Micro Talls, MMG's, SVS, Ascend Acoustics, Magnestand MMGs, well, you get the idea. Since this thread is in regard to OHM's, let me just say I enjoyed the Micro OHM's more than any of the other OHM speakers I tried. (100s and Micro Talls) This is the little speaker that could. It totally disappeared in my room and was much more "immediate" in "feeling" than the other OHM speakers which I felt projected an image too far away for my tastes (though this little speaker is dynamically limited). The micro OHM had a "perspective" of the front or second row of a concert hall while the other OHMs seem to place the listener too far back for me. This worked fine for movies, however, as "background" became what it should be "background". For music, however, I found the "OHM" sound to be a bit "removed" given it's image projection. I know this is a "taste" thing and has nothing to do with "accuracy". I think it just depends on where you like to "sit" at a concert. I must also add I've NOT heard the latest incarnations of the upper end OHMs so maybe this has changed. This is a remarkable speaker and I wish in no way to diminish it's contribution to accurate sound reproduction but I do think "where you like to sit at a music event or movie theater" is relevent to a choice of a reproducing loudspeaker.
Interesting MWTs (which I have not heard) were more forward. No Walshes I have heard are.

It could have to do with tonal balance in a particular room. WHen the supertweeter is more predominant, I have noticed soundstage tends to be smaller. Perhaps things also become more forward?

OHM Walshes in general are not for those that prefer a more forward presentation. Not much goes on in front of the speakers in general I have found. Same true of mbl omnis I have heard. THis may be a general trait of omnis but I am not certain.
Tvad, do you happen to remember I think Stereophile or one of the hi-fi rags a number of years ago offering a pair of little leather flaps or cups you hung off of your ears? I need to Google that. I found it kind of funny at the time.

This is all interesting reading though. Many interesting points being brought up. Must be why there are so many different types and companies that make speakers, we all have ears, but listen in differing ways. I just say enjoy whatever floats your boat! I know I do enjoy my Ohm's very much, and also, when I had ATC Active 20's, I enjoyed them as well. It takes all types! Enjoy the tunes! Tim
Rpfef: FWIW, I listen to some classical, but not a majority of the time. My impressions wih both small and larger scale classical is that the Ohms do this well. The strings are not the sweetest or most liquid I have heard, but neither are they etched, brittle or overly dry. The best part is that the character of strings (and everything else) that the Ohms have does not deteriorate as the SPLs increase. There is no sense of compression or pinched sound on loud passages (provided the recording is decent). Now, I do not run my Ohms full range. I do have subs, and the Ohms see a first order roll off below 80Hz. But in the critical upper midrange for strings, the Ohms simply blow my Vandy 1Cs out of the water.

Kristian85: I don't mean to rag on ATC. Far be it from me to denigrate a loudspeaker that J. Gordon Holt loved so much. That said, regardless of the technical measurements the ATCs I heard might produce, I simply did not care for the sound.

Also, note that some of the finest mastering studios in the world use passive loudspeakers like the B&W 802D and the KEF 207.2. These expensive speakers do detail and dynamics like the ATC, but also have other audiophile capabilities that I did not hear when I listened to the ATCs.

Zkzpb8 said it best - studio monitors have different design goals than most home hifi speakers. Home audio tries to reproduce the original performance in a home environment (which is usually far from perfect). A studio monitor is designed to let the professional hear, in his controlled environment, every minute detail so that any problems in a mix will be heard and then corrected. Soundstage, bloom, image placement and other audiophile focuses are simply not that important in the studio context. This, in fact, was exactly what I said when I heard the ATCs. They were ruthlessly revealling. If you like that kind of presentation, fine, but I don't. Now, with my Ohms, as I mentioned in my review, there is a pretty well-balanced combination of detail retreival with an absence of harshness and etch. I much prefer the Ohm's balance to the ATCs I heard.

As for the merits of powered speakers, sure, there are definite advantages. However, most audiophile powered loudspeakers are beyond my reach financially (especially those suited to my large-ish listening space). Note that the Ohm Walsh drivers run full range up to about 8kHz, and then, I believe, naturally roll off. The tweeter that comes in above 8kHz is, I think, only passively attenuated at lower frequencies. Is there any distortion in this design? I dunno, but I don't hear any. But then, I am not a trained listener.

Another thing to consider is the reason that most loudspeaker manufacturers do not offer powered loudspeakers. In the world of subjective audiophiles, amplifiers sound different. Besides the logistical issues of solid state vs. tubes vs. Class D amps, most audiophiles prefer to use their own preferred amplifiers. Does that involve a compromise in performance? Perhaps. But it also means that consumers can go for the sound they like, and put a system together that they find pleasing. But think of it this way: If I run a speaker manufacturer, do I want to eliminate from my potential customer base any audiophile who prefers, say, tube amps, by building only solid state-powered loudspeakers?

I am getting the impression that Kristian85 is an objectivist. That isn't a criticism, but it does place into context his concern for flat response, low distortion, etc. I will paraphrase Einstein here: Not everything that matters can be measured, and not everything that can be measured matters.

Bottom line, I know what I like. Other audiophiles that I hang out with in my local audiophile society had similar impressions with the ATC. As for my Ohms, I had a few audiophile buddies over to listen. Most agreed that the Ohm Walsh 2000s sounded pretty good overall. Some were bothered by a gentle roll-off in the highs, but this was due, I believe, to my set up of the speakers, and I like the balance where it is, for the most part.