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Neutral or Detailed. You can't have both

At least not how I understand the audiophile terms. The problem comes in the mid-treble.

A truly, measurably, objectively neutral speakers doesn’t come alive until the volume is turned up, but will lack the perception of detail, because those details come from exaggerated and often rough treble responses.

B&W however has some of this reputation. They are not objectively neutral speakers.

The Magico S1 Mk II has an uptilt in the treble, but is glass smooth. It is probably what I consider the best example of this combined desire for a neutral but detailed speaker.

Monitor Audio’s top end speakers - Objectively neutral, superbly engineered. Often too laid back for most people, Audiophiles would not consider them "detailed."

As always, you should buy what you like. Maybe you don’t like neutral speakers. Goodness knows some reviewers don’t.
erik_squires
jon_5912
585 posts
 
I've thought about this and I mostly agree.  Most musical instruments are fairly loud and most recordings are made with microphones fairly close.  It makes sense that a speaker that is neutral would have the full detail of the instrument when played at the same volume as the instrument.  If listened to at a much lower volume a lot of the detail will become inaudible.  I definitely think some speakers manage to retain detail at lower volumes better than others.  I don't know what the factors are.  I suspect low mass, stiff drivers are better at making small transients audible.  

I have two systems, one with Thiel 3.7s and another with ATC 110s and I love them both but they're distinctly different in that the Thiels are better at low volume while the ATCs excel when cranked.  The ATCs sound boring at low volume but they are capable of far larger dynamic swings.  
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 

Neutrality (timbre/coloration) and detail/definition are independently on two axes, and it is a categorical mistake to think that one can dictate the other. Imo, you do not understand the audiophile terms.  :)




helomech
1,533 posts
 
I would think that at moderate listening volume, a neutral sounding speaker, as the human ear is concerned, would have a measurable dip in the upper mids/ lower treble. I believe this why the average studio monitor leans toward brightness and fatigue.

I agree that exaggerated treble is often mistaken for detail. Case in point would be Golden Ear Tritons:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-one-loudspeaker-measurements
They have quite a large boost above 10kHz. To my ears, these speakers produced about as much detail as $400 Klipsch towers, yet they were ear-piercing bright. Maybe the brightness was simply masking detail?
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nonoise's avatar
nonoise
10,638 posts
 
@erik_squires ,
The speakers that I consider neutral (or close to) are my JBL 4319 monitors. Factor in the incredibly neutral sounding Kinki EX-M1 (ever so slightly warm) and some Darwin Truth II ICs and one can easily hear how detail and neutrality can co-exist on the same plane and how I still feel that they aren't mutually exclusive.

Once both of those two qualities are achieved, coupled with power and control over a wide bandwidth, the speaker's job becomes so much more easier. Synergy is always touted and rarely achieved, but when it is, what you'll hear with leave all your previous impressions and beliefs at the door.

All the best,
Nonoise
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