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Neutral or Detailed. You can't have both

At least not how I understand the audiophile terms. The problem comes in the mid-treble.

A truly, measurably, objectively neutral speakers doesn’t come alive until the volume is turned up, but will lack the perception of detail, because those details come from exaggerated and often rough treble responses.

B&W however has some of this reputation. They are not objectively neutral speakers.

The Magico S1 Mk II has an uptilt in the treble, but is glass smooth. It is probably what I consider the best example of this combined desire for a neutral but detailed speaker.

Monitor Audio’s top end speakers - Objectively neutral, superbly engineered. Often too laid back for most people, Audiophiles would not consider them "detailed."

As always, you should buy what you like. Maybe you don’t like neutral speakers. Goodness knows some reviewers don’t.
erik_squires
helomech
1,706 posts
 
I would think that at moderate listening volume, a neutral sounding speaker, as the human ear is concerned, would have a measurable dip in the upper mids/ lower treble. I believe this why the average studio monitor leans toward brightness and fatigue.

I agree that exaggerated treble is often mistaken for detail. Case in point would be Golden Ear Tritons:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-one-loudspeaker-measurements
They have quite a large boost above 10kHz. To my ears, these speakers produced about as much detail as $400 Klipsch towers, yet they were ear-piercing bright. Maybe the brightness was simply masking detail?
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nonoise's avatar
nonoise
10,891 posts
 
@erik_squires ,
The speakers that I consider neutral (or close to) are my JBL 4319 monitors. Factor in the incredibly neutral sounding Kinki EX-M1 (ever so slightly warm) and some Darwin Truth II ICs and one can easily hear how detail and neutrality can co-exist on the same plane and how I still feel that they aren't mutually exclusive.

Once both of those two qualities are achieved, coupled with power and control over a wide bandwidth, the speaker's job becomes so much more easier. Synergy is always touted and rarely achieved, but when it is, what you'll hear with leave all your previous impressions and beliefs at the door.

All the best,
Nonoise
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,850 posts
 
The first really good tweeters I heard---the RTR ESL's---used by Dave Wilson in his WAMM and ESS in their pre-Heil AMT Transtatic---had the combination of detail, nature timbre, and liquid transparency that the best ESL's are known for. Current ESL's, as well as the first production "full" range ESL, the Quad "57", are known for that sound character and quality.
sound22card's avatar
sound22card
26 posts
 
Hi-Fi speakers seem always to be compensating for something.  Studio monitors don't, but in comparison, might sound dull to some. I'll go with the accuracy of monitors everytime.

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