Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio

Hi Blueranger

My recommendation would be to join TuneLand and start a thread on "Home Audio Systems". http://tuneland.forumotion.com/f3-home-audio-systems

From there we can explore your questions more directly.

Michael

Hi Uberwaltz

If you look at TuneLand you don't see trolling, anywhere. That's because there is a common spirit of putting music, the history of music, people's systems and experiences first. For other forums removing trolling isn't that hard and once a few of the obvious trolls are banned it doesn't take long for the more mature posters to start putting the disobedient ones in their places.

On these forums, behind the scenes, there is a place called permissions. In that place you can assign where a person can go or not. Folks who get out of line can have their permissions limited. It would be actually easier to have the mods give permissions than having to make report judgement calls. As it is right now, the mods are listening to several sides of an issue with each making their case and the mod has to decide who to delete or not delete. Some forums have mods who come up and say "be nice now", then issue a warning, then ban. On a forum like this I would have levels of mods. One would be a peer mod. There are several members on here who would make excellent peer mods, you usually find them in the music section. These are guys who put listening to music above any of the other issues, and almost always are encouraging others regardless of their systems.

You can also divide things up. The greet and meet section is a place where folks can work out their getting to know each other issues. A lot of times on here folks don't get along only because they don't know each other. A greet and meet forum would be a place where you post your own system (with pictures) and give background.

Then you have the debate forum. This is where you go to discuss topics and give your point of view. The way I would monitor these threads is easy. You must give your name and profession. If someone has a strong opinion they should be showing who they are.

You then have your industry forums. Those get monitored by the industry members themselves. The industry member moderating the forum pays a monthly fee of $30.00-$50.00 to Audiogon for this right. These threads should have words and pictures.

The main thing here is to make an Audiogon community.

Michael Green

Mike 

I cannot find anywhere on this site that you spent a penny let alone 30 to 50 American dollars..Tom

Hi Tom

I’m not sure when you became an Audiogoner. I believe our last ads here would have been around 2004 or so. Steven at that time visited my place here in Vegas and discussed what the future of Audiogon might look like, along with the rest of HEA. Richard Beers and I had similar talks (among others), where was HEA going and how does it get there. HEA as a whole turned out to be a lot slower to getting there (wherever there was to be) then any of us thought. Lots of great ideas around that time but little momentum. HEA should have grown but somehow went in reverse.

Around the same time I was offered two pretty sweet deals that took my focus away from HEA. One was with my dream company Herman Miller and the other the chance to design an entire music department for SUNY, two opportunities there was no way I was going to pass up.

I dipped my toe a few times back in HEA, but there has always been enough private clients to keep me going without jumping in with both feet. Now that the Tuning Buzz is back in swing, we’ll see. Thanks for asking!

I’ve just made a shipment off to Malaysia to some great listeners and I’m excited to see their response to the Rev Speakers. As you know there is a Tunable Room already there full of my goodies, so we’ll see how the speakers fit in. The speakers also just got another great review so, yes, I’m tip toeing around spending some ad money when the time is right.

On Audiogon though, as I told them, I’m not so much interested in doing ads here until the internet trolling is cleared up on the forum. I thrive off of good vibes not bad, so I’m somewhat into building good vibes here, but the jury is still out on if it will take hold.

In the meantime I’m still trying to figure out how to proceed with Vegas. Finding the right place, the right size, has been interesting. Moving on the Strip I found that my place is now way too small and even renting another space here to add to it, I’m still too cramped plus zoning, aarrggg. The last 3 weeks I’ve been house shopping so I can get these current Tunable Rooms out to folks. Always a balance these days, either too far out of town or too little space for the bigger projects. Thank God I have the greatest clients (friends) in the biz.

take care Tom, hope you and Robert are doing well and have enjoyed the summer

Michael Green

michaelgreenaudio
On Audiogon though, as I told them, I’m not so much interested in doing ads here until the internet trolling is cleared up on the forum.

>>>Should be any day, now. The wheels are in motion.