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Solid State vs. Tubes - What if Transistors came first?

What do you guys think?

If transistors came first, and then decades later tubes were invented, would we have any tube amps we would call high end?

Wouldn’t they all fail to reach the height of performance and transparency set by transistor amps?

Best,

E

P.S. I love Conrad Johnson. I'm just wondering how  much of our arguments have to do with timing. 
erik_squires
lous's avatar
lous
203 posts
 

Hey Dave,


I obviously can't know, but it is possible that in at least some of those instances when you heard a haze it was either the transformers, as in PrimaLuna, or carbon resistors in others. I think a lot of people like that haze, it's why, IMO, Vandersteen speakers sell so well. That haze helps cover other issues, for some it makes music sound good, for others it obscures detail.

The PrimaLuna I had was WAY under biased, so the KT88's wouldn't have been operating in their most linear range, but even with my current amp they are a little under biased, the power transformer can't put out enough voltage for them, and the output transformers are set up for EL34's, so they too are less than ideal. I may well put my KT88's back in it until I can upgrade the transformers as I think KT88's are some of the best sounding output tubes there are. I hope to address that as time goes on.


I know that PrimaLuna brags about their transformers, but I am less convinced, people who are much deeper into tubes than I apparently think they are not very good, and merely looking at the physical size of them makes me think that they were not made for KT88's at full power, which ought to be about 70-80% of the 42 watts each that they are rated for, so about 31-32 watts per tube will give sufficient bias, and not burn up the tubes prematurely, in other words, they will be running in class A/B rather than class A bias.


Anyway, that MAY explain at least SOME of this issues that you have run into with tubes sounding off. The most expensive part of any amp, that doesn't use a switching power supply, is the transformer, so if you want to skimp on a tube amp, skimp on the transformers, actually the same can be said of transistor amps, and may explain the lack of bass in some of them. Anyway, we may well never fully resolve this question, though the newer Kiwame and Takman Rex resistors supposedly use carbon film, and have less noise than many metal film resistors, so people may be able to "warm" up their amps without sacrificing detail now.

fleschler
2,008 posts
 
lous- I wonder how VAC manages to get 100 watts from a pair of KT88s in their 200iq amp without prematurely blowing them up in Class A/B configuration.  They tightly regulate the tube bias and have oversized/massive transformers of high quality.  Are you able to figure it out?  Their amps never sound undersized or hazy.
andy2
1,549 posts
 
It's odd.  I always felt it's the solid state that has a bit of a haze while tubes have better transparency.  Maybe some have attributed this "haze" as being laid back and having less of treble present.  I always felt that solid state a lot of time is guilty of having the treble being a bit hot therefore having an artificial clarity.
dave_b's avatar
dave_b
3,159 posts
 
andy2 - Possibly, but as a drummer I appreciate crystal clarity up top for cymbals etc...  Also, the excitement and tension between the notes is a big thing for me, and a very quiet noise floor is required.  Ideally I should have 2 systems I guess?  Anyway, it’s all fun and sometimes mood dependent.  As for the Haze, BAD SS could have some as well I guess, but not with well designed stuff.  FYI, I am a big proponent of balanced signal paths, which in my experience sounds so much more Live than single ended.  I want nothing between me and the source sonically.  The gestalt should be that Only air separates me from the musicians.  Sometimes that may be too much for some listeners.
lous's avatar
lous
203 posts
 
Wikipedia has this to say about KT88s and their wattage;
"A KT88 push-pull pair in class AB1 fixed bias is capable of 100 watts of output with 2.5% total harmonic distortion or up to about 50W at low distortion in hi-fi applications."
Just because a tube distorts less obviously doesn't mean it's clean. That said, as I understand it you can get a clean 60 watts out of them. I only worked with tubes in video and announcing systems, I have never worked in tube amplification design, so my knowledge is finite. That's why I went to Don Sachs and Roy Mottram, I have learned a little bit more about them, but I am far from an expert.
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