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The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






daveyf
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
The key world is "buying", not "trying". Japanese sellers does not provide trial option for the cartridges they are selling on ebay (the goal is just a low price). The OP problem is that he can’t buy, he want to try it first. He’s looking not only for the most expensive cartridges like Koetsu, he also would like to try it and return it used or even damaged back to the seller (or to a distributor). In his ideal world distributor have to lose money on people like him and return those opened/used cartridges back to the manufacturer for full refund? So if some people (who can’t even install $100 cartridge) will destroy 10% of the bunch of $5k cartridges (by trying them in their systems) it does not hurt anyone (dealer, distributor, manufacturer...) and all for free.

Used market is not for him, he need a new cartridge to open sealed box by himself and then return it used. How many cartridges he would like to try like that until he will find what he need (10-40) ? At the distributor’s cost anyway. Good idea? This is what this post is all about.

Buying cartridges is a "nightmare" for him, no free demos :( 
For some sellers people like him is a "nighmare" to deal with. 

This is where his ideal world meets the reality. Welcome to the world.  

 
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
3,076 posts
 

You really have no idea about what I am concerned about, do you?
Please re-read my OP, and attempt to understand why the current high priced cartridge buying status quo isn’t, at least imho, a very palatable scenario for the high end cartridge consumer.
Let me give you a simple example of why I think this is a problem...
You have just gone out and spent $10k on a new cartridge, one that you have never heard before( because no dealer stocks it, and because even if they did, they are typically not demoing this model; or assuming that they do have it on demo, the arm and table that they utilize is VERY different to yours).
You plunk down your hard earned cash— ? , and the dealer mounts it for you, or maybe you do it yourself , either way, the cartridge is now on your own arm and table. Presumably safely mounted and correctly set up. You give it a listen, and...
ooops, it sounds like sh—t!
According to your philosophy, no problem, after all, what’s $10k to you, lol. So, now your options are a) sell cartridge used for a significant $ loss, b) learn to live with the debacle and be a BiG man, or c) see if the dealer will somehow accommodate you given the fact that he highly recommended the cartridge in the first place...
please do ‘enlighten’ us as to which one of these is your position.( somehow, I seriously doubt it’s b...)
Now, I’m not saying that I expect all dealers to allow me to first try expensive cartridges in my own system first, without some kind of off-setting compensation...that’s your assumption.

BTW, are you a cartridge dealer or manufacturers rep, because if you are, I can easily tell that you have little to no concern about your customers,or their customer satisfaction. 

hdm
1,078 posts
 
Have bought a couple of relatively inexpensive cartridges and other items from Juki in the past. Wouldn’t hesitate to deal with him and, if I recall correctly, he did take a fairly expensive cartridge back on return/exchange once from someone posting on another forum.

Took a quick look at his feedback and didn’t see any Koetsu feedback (he does have some listed) but did notice a couple of feedbacks on pretty upmarket cartridges (Ortofon A95 and Dynavector SV-1S) in the past few months, both of which sold at substantial (really substantial actually!) discounts to the U.S. prices. It appears they are essentially being sold without the U.S. distributor/retail chain mark up.
roxy1927
142 posts
 
Often you can get a sense of cartridges by reading not only the reviews but what many people have to say. As you are on this forum you know you have to read a lot. Are people agreeing on characteristics? Warm? Analytical? What do you like? Can you buy a demo at half price from a rep on audiogon who has excellent feedback? Even if ebay has better prices buy from somebody in the US who is known to be a superb seller. I've done it twice with two sellers on audiogon after reading a lot about their cartridges and they were great to deal with. And their cartridges were to die for.

I mean what else can you do? Nothing I'm afraid. If you dislike it sell it. Your loss is your price to have auditioned it. Nobody said this is a cheap hobby. It can be crazy expensive. We all know that and it means enough for us to pay the price. You surely know that as well. 
papafrgog
103 posts
 
This is a relevant and as it turns out, entertaining thread. I’m thinking I could improve my analog system and think starting at the source, i e cartridge, makes sense. I have a high quality TT w/ a high quality compliance-matched tonearm, and good components down line. But I’m also spooked by the risk/return of a cartridge purchase.  Whether or not I can afford a “high end” cartridge doesn’t solve my desire to feel confident in the decision to buy it. I want to hear it, after run-in and properly installed on equipment that’s reasonably similar to mine. And unless I can get a loaner/demo that’s next to impossible. I have no real answer other than agree it’s frustrating - unless I simply start throwing money at the problem hoping to eventually find something to keep. 
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