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I like my system flat, no tone controls, no eq..........what is your preference, and why.

A poster on another thread here has encouraged me to post this. Been an audio professional and a hobbyist for 50 tears. I had my time with eq, tone controls ( even reverb and time delay units ). I am currently at the point where I need nothing to alter the recordings I listen to, nor to compensate for room aberrations. I have spent lots of money on equipment , had equipment on loan, of all types ( pretty much a bit of everything, for the most part ) and I have tweaked, and tweaked, and tweaked. I have recently tooled down to a much simpler and less expensive system, and I find I am the happiest I have ever been. Might be my amp, my passive unit, my speakers...…….yes, all of that. Yes, all of that is important, but it is the system synergy that has made me realize that changing anything with an eq or tone controls took me further from that synergy, that balance. I accept, and enjoy my recordings for what they are. Some better than others ( sq ). But, I am enjoying the brilliance of all the studio work put into them,  exactly as they were intended to be listened to. This is me. I do not believe in right or wrong, better or worse, newer vs older, yada yada yada. I have believed, and have stated, particularly in this hobby, to each his own. I hear fuse differences, power cable differences, etc. Some believe I was born a bat. I am happy of my gift, not just hearing well, but through the years, teaching myself " what it is I like ", which is the key for most of us. I am not sure where this thread will go, but I put it out there, and hope folks will drop in, even though much of it might have been stated before in other threads. Thank you A'gon family, be well, and Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
vair68robert
625 posts
 
Interesting topic with interesting responses , 
so with that being said 
everything that I say is either male bovine droppings to some 
or rings true to others . 

It seems like a lot of responders are very experienced and long term 
audiophiles , not like myself who while having systems since the 1970s
didn't take listening to the audiophile level until about 10 years ago .
The term Flat is very elusive but I agree with the concept .
I am a minimalist using a passive preamp with only a stepped attenuator and 2 inputs , one for a Tavish Designs Adagio tube phono preamp and the other for a Carver SD/A-490t CD player .
Hoping that less is more , or less electronic interpretation .
Flat on my system will sound different than anybody else's Flat .
So how are you and I supposed to know what Flat is or what it is really supposed to be .
We all set up our systems to please our own senses ,
thus the tube vs. solid state , single speaker speakers  
vs. 3 way speakers , subs or no subs .

I have learned a lot from reading many of the forums here on Audiogon ,
especially from the Thiel speaker thread and the discussions concerning power amplifiers ,  any one component can change the entire dynamics of your system and that the 
Synergy that we all strive for can be elusive and frustrating ,
but if to your senses you have found your nirvana then you should not need to use or even have tone controls
( or subs in my opinion because to me that is artificially boosting lower frequencies   ) .

Weather you agree or not with my BS 
I agree with mrdecibel .

Happy Friday








mrdecibel OP
3,064 posts
 
Listen folks, I should have started this thread as :  I like my system " set to flat ", as opposed to flat, which many thought acoustically flat, as Doug Shneider, in his original response, caught on to. Keep in mind, this as an important a topic as any, since the strides in digital has allowed equalization and tone shaping to be something huge, as I believe it once was. As each of us progress on to a new piece of equipment, it brings us closer, generally, to hearing more information from our systems. Better acoustical room set up. How many different ways to set up speakers, from all kinds of " professional " people ? When I walk into a room, I have a pretty good idea what the room needs, acoustically, and the approximate speaker location once the listening chair location has been determined. You, your equipment, your room, your music, and ultimately, siting, relaxing, or headbanging, to an experience that was all worth it. Whatever the means to get there. Enjoy ! MrD.
minorl
1,016 posts
 

Two problems that i see with the "I like my system flat" ideal.

1.  The room itself affects the sound.

2.  everyone's hearing is different.

Take a test cd, (stereophile) play white noise at listening levels, use the audiotools app (free) to look at the frequency response at the listening position. are there peaks and valleys?  If so, your system and/or room isn't flat in the first place and needs correcting.  It could be the electronics or the room or both.

The real PITA comes when it is the room and room correction devices (hopefully not butt ugly) are needed.

The second is the listener.  A real eye opener comes when one takes a hearing test in a proper setting. This also tells you where the peaks and valleys and shortcoming happen with your personal hearing.  This is where equalization comes in and is absolutely needed. 

I would do room correction first if I see on the graphs that the room/equipment is having issues. Bass traps, etc.

But, if my hearing is failing, then EQ is needed.  The problem with EQ (unless) you have a bypass switch to put it back to flat, is that when you are listening at your EQ levels, it doesn't sound quite right to anyone else.  it is adjusted to you.  Which is fine if you are alone.  People also purchase equipment just for this reason also.  Some equipment emphasizes bass or mids or highs just so, and the purchaser buys certain equipment to suite their taste. The designer made it that way.  Certain Krell equipment back in the day was way too bright for me.  Also other equipment over emphasized the bass. 

I agree that flat is the way to go.  All equipment should be designed to be absolutely flat from at least 20 hz to 20 KHz.  If that is the case and you measure your room's response, then it is the room that is causing the peaks and valleys in the sound playback.  but, what equipment is actually flat in that frequency range?  not many.

Get the test cd, get the audiotools (or similar) app, play the white noise and see that your equipment and room is actually doing.

It can be an eye opener.

enjoy

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,311 posts
 
My preference is to do what is needed to make things work.  If that means adjusting the tone then adjust the tone. 
ianrodger
164 posts
 
I have always understood "flat" to mean that if there are tone controls on your amp, leave them centred - no promotion and no restriction of high, mid or low frequency.

It used to be said that if you were using them, your gear was sub-standard. You come to realise what a load of bollocks that theory is when you move your set-up to a different room or install acoustic treatments and it suddenly comes to life. Or when you take into account, the differences in quality of some productions and recordings.

Late last year, I bought a Loki to augment the bass in my system which uses various valve amps with no tone controls. To a lesser extent, I also needed to tame the occasionally harsh high ends on some albums. I enjoyed the effect it had on some recordings.

More recently, I moved to a different room and found I needed the Loki less often.
After an external power supply grid issue, I bought a power conditioner that also delivers a constant voltage. I no longer need the Loki at all.

It seems that apart from now being in a more sympathetic room, a clean and constant power supply to the amp, Dac and server was the missing ingredient in my system. I now have a more substantial bottom end as well as a more refined high end.
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