2. cables
  3. 140503-78269

Skeptic or just plain hard headed

So I purchased a pair of Morrow Audio phono cables. These are the PH3 with the Eichmann connectors. Wanted to start there to see if MA cables will be a viable option for my system.I think my story is not so unique to others who have purchased MA cables. So no need to go into the hu hum of burn-in in regards to MA cables, and how things sound bad at first, then gets better,  then excellent...yada yada yada. I know the story about this product.  I simply am one who is not a believer in electronics break in periods, or battery packs on cables, etc... Regardless of what side of the fence you are on in regards to that Im NOT trying to start that debate again please.. Anyway. After reading several reviews of the MA cables and understanding that most agreed that the cables needed a substantial burn-in time, and that the cables would not sound its best until this happens I decided to give them a try. Thinking ok lets get a jump on the burn-in period (if the concept is true). I paid for the 2 day burn-in service from MA. What I didn't expect is that when I got the cable it would sound as bad as it did in comparison to my existing name brand cable (not getting into that either, not relevant). I thought well the cable might not quite be up to snuff with all this talk about burn-in (if its true) but not that much of a difference.  I mean as soon as I dropped the needle on the record I immediately heard a profound difference in sound stage and clarity degridation. Needless to say this cable was destined to be returned to MA for a full refund and my thinking was "they are crazy if I am going to trade my cable for this cable" So I decided to give MA a call to setup the return. Talked with Mike Morrow (very nice guy by the way) and we had our differences in what I should expect out of his product. Now my Mother always told me that I have a hard head.. I heard that growing up all my life, and when you couple that with skepticism it makes a pretty, well lets just say not a very fun person to have a debate with lol. However Mike insisted that if I return the cable that I would be missing out on the fruit they would bare after 400 hours of break in. 400 hours??? really!. Oh at that point I was really ready to return them. I told all my friends "Mike must be nuts" (no offense Mike) no way am I going to wait a year to hear what this cable is capable of, AND I do not have any way to expedite the process...at least I thought I didn't until I found an old sound bar I don't use anymore with analog inputs. Ok I know you pro MA and  pro cable burn-in folks are chomping at the bit. Im almost done. Take your hands off the keyboard for just a few more lines. 

So here is the deal to be fair I am going to be open minded about this because Mike really made me feel like I would be missing out if I return the cable without a proper burn-in (great salesman), and since he had such conviction I now think I have to test this thing out right??. Now I know that there are testimonials out there about how the MA cable improved over 100s of hours in their system, and that they are now "blown away". However can you really hear a profound difference in a cable you play in your system over 170 hours or so?  I would think a gradual difference would be harder to detect. I mean my system seems to sound better to me everyday without making any changes. Is it because of  continued cable and electronics burn in?? maybe. Or maybe its just my brain becoming more intimate with the sound of my system. Well this test I'm doing should reveal a night and day difference from what the system sounds like today with the cable pre burn-in if there is any merit to the notion. In regards to does it sound better than my existing cable that is yet to be determined. I think my goal now is to prove or dis-prove if cable burn-in is a real thing. This whole idea has evolved from if it's an improvement or not over what I use today. We can discuss that later.

I now have the cable connected between a cd player , and a sound bar with a CD playing on repeat. The disc of choice for this burn-in is rather dynamic so it should be a good test. At the end of 16 days (384 hours) I will move the cables to my reference system and do about another 20 hours of additional burn-in to compensate for moving the cable. This will put a total of 452 hours of burn-in on the PH3. When I put this cable back in my system I sure hope it sings because this is a lot to go through to add a cable to your system. Mike if you are right I will eat crow and will preach from the highest mountain top that you are right, and that cable burn-in is REAL.  For me anyway the myth will be considered busted or reinforce my belief that cable burn-in is a bunch of BS. 

For those who will argue the point of cable burn-in I fully understand the concept, and I don't plan to get sucked down that rat hole and I won't argue that....yet because at the end of this test I may be in your camp and I don't want to have a steady diet of crow so for now I will remain neutral on the subject until the test is complete.  However I will be totally transparent and honest about the results. So not trying to make anyone angry as I know beliefs about audio are sensitive subjects, and rightfully so this hobby is expensive and I like you have a substancial investment in this. Just trying to get to the truth. I also understand that cable burn-in may actually happen when you consider it from a scientific perspective, but the real question is can you actually hear the difference.  

I will report back to this thread in 17 days from today (need at least one day to evaluate) with the results. 

happy listening!!

-Keith
barnettk
barnettk OP
410 posts
 
@prof 

Intersting. Ok well now you have me curious. Not doubtful :) but curious. So early on in the post I had made arrangements for 3 others to participate in this. My wife who does not care one way or the other. She only cares about "how much did you pay for that" and will it work in our homes decor. My Youngest Son who is in college and also in the music business, an audiophile friend of mine who I can explain what im listening for, then allow him to make his own judgement, and Me. So now that you have planted that seed I think its only fair to complete the comparison at least to that level. I mean the truth is what we seek right? Plus I have not returned the cable yet, and I still have the recording I made. Its a little crude of an A/B test but I think it will suffice. This has been going on for a month so what the heck. I know i'm right but now that you said what you said I probably will have regrets and be up at night thinking about it :) 

See we need people like you to call these things out and challenge us to be thourough regardless of what we think we know. I really do mean that. I guess we can now add stubborn to skeptical, hardheaded, and inpatient. darn it. It seems im learning more about myself than this freaking audio cable. I will report back and post the outcome in the next few days.  I am going to put the cable back on the "burn in" device I came up with for a day and by weekends end I will give the short version of the results. I promise it will be short this time.
barnettk OP
410 posts
 
@prof 

Oh and by the way. To be fair and to your point. Im going to have my Son blind fold me and try to fool me with his cable swap to see if "I" can actually hear the difference between the two cables. How about that? Then i'm going to tell you what I already know :) 
aberyclark
1,364 posts
 
I think cd’s sound better after 10-20 plays 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
That’s because the bits need to break in, obviously.
prof
3,480 posts
 
Oh jeeze, I don’t mean to cause you any more work Keith!

But since you seem to be up to more testing...

Its no good to rely on concepts like “X person has no interest in the gear so if they report hearing a difference it can’t be bias and must be accurate.”

No one is immune to sighted bias effects. The mere act of listening for differences can make people perceive differences even if they don’t “care” about the outcome.

If you really mean to do some form of home-brew blind test, here are some ideas from my own ac cable blind testing, some or all of which you may want to employ:

The fact it will be a single blind test doesn’t completely invalidate the test, but single blind tests suffer from the possibility of “experimentor bias.” That is so long as the person conducting the test knows which cable is which, they can influence the outcome in subtle unconscious ways - including subtlety tipping off the subject in ways neither are aware.

To try to control for this I did the following:

1. Pattern of switching is randomized. This is standard for blind testing. Say you are going to do 12 trials (switches). The person doing the switching can flip a coin 12 times and write down the sequence of heads and tails. He can use that sequence to follow for switching the cables.

2. Use a blind fold of some kind if possible to reduce likelihood of peeking :)

3. Try to reduce communicating (hence reduce possible subtle cues) between you and the switcher. Best of you listen to your music selection and simply say “switch” each time you want (the switcher then following the random pattern arrived at with the coin flips). Best of the switcher doesn’t say anything at all during the trial.

4. I wanted to make sure I couldn’t tell
just by the sound of the plugs going in or out which cable has been plugged in. Therefore we did a little pre-trial of only the cables being switched on my command (blindfolded). The sequence being decided by coin flip. Once that trial established my guesses were random, I could be more confident I’d dealt with that variable.

Again: things to consider. It can be easier than many think to screw up blind testing, But even casual blind testing can be kind of fun and intersting.

Best of luck!





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