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Used Market Savings vs. The Dealer Experience

Hi all,
I’ve asked a couple questions on these forums and have always gotten great advice, so I’m coming back to the well. My fundamental question is: how do you reconcile (or balance) the auditioning value a dealer provides vs the absolute dollar value you get from buying on the used market?

I bought a McIntosh MA252 recently, and it’s so great it’s convinced me to commit and invest in a serious hi-fi system. I’d drop $30k for something that put my jaw on the floor. Right now I’m running Goldenear Triton 2s, a Marantz TT-15 TT for analog, Mytek Brooklyn + Bluesound Node 2i for digital, and just replaced a Marantz PM-8005 with the Mc. Silnote cables all around. The Mc gave me my first taste of actual holographic imaging and sound you could reach out and touch. Now I want more of that, as well as greater/faster/more pronounced dynamic shifts.

I have a dealer nearby that’s been a joy to work with (bought the Tritons and Mc there). They let me listen to their 200k Wilson setup with D’Agostino amps and sweet little baby Jesus -- it was like trying to box a feral animal in the complete darkness. Lashes of sound just came out of nowhere, smacked you upside the head, and were gone. I was dumbstruck. The Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs, by comparison, were a smoother, more musical sound signature but far less of that arresting clarity.

I make this point because, had I not been allowed to audition this gear, I would have had no idea about any of that. In doing my due diligence to shop for a setup, I know I want to hear Focal Sopras, Olympica IIIs again, Goldenear T-Refs AND maybe a Wilson Sasha for good measure. I want to hear Mc separates, ARC separates, Rega TTs, Linn TTs, etc. To me, my dealer provides real value in auditioning, optimizing, and being confident that what I’m buying is what I like best.

Unfortunately, with new vs. gently used prices, the $ cost of that experience is massive -- $10k+ quite literally. On the used market now I can get Olympica IIIs for $7k instead of $13.5k, a Rega RP10 w/ Aphelion for $6.5k instead of $9ish, Mc C1100 + MC275 for $13k instead of $20k, and a pair of Sasha’s at $15k is within striking distance. New? They’re $30k. I also live in a high sales tax (10.1%) area, which doesn’t help anything.

For those with more purchasing experience, or even dealing experience, how do you square the value of auditioning gear with the exorbitant relative cost of then foregoing the used market? I feel definite guilt sucking my dealer’s resources to then just go buy it all online. That’s bad business, and if everyone did it, there would be no dealers, and heck, no new gear being made.

Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,
Ben
bfjones01
big_greg
6,623 posts
 
I do both. 

I buy used gear from other enthusiasts, usually at about 50% of the new price.  Overall my experience doing that has been good, but there have been a couple of incidents where I got ripped off or something wasn't as advertised.  I usually get to audition the gear in a more realistic setting closer to my home environment than the dealer's acoustically treated showroom.  If it turns out I don't like it or I upgrade, I can usually sell it for what I paid for it or close. 

I like having the option to try new and different things in my systems.  Of course some dealers will let you try things so you can see how they sound in your system.

I buy some new gear directly from the dealer.  Sometimes in person, sometimes online.  The ones I work with have liberal return policies for the most part.  The biggest plus of doing this is being able to speak to the dealer and pick their brains about how a piece will work with my other components.  I've been talked out of purchases that I thought were a good idea more than once.  I treasure those types of relationships and will go there first at every opportunity.

I buy some used gear (trade-ins, floor models, consignments, old stock, etc.) from dealers.  I've been able to get some great deals that way and often they'll come with some sort of warranty, sometimes even a full warranty.  There are a number of dealers that sell new gear, but also do a brisk business in used equipment.

Sometimes a dealer doesn't have exactly what I'm looking for within my budget and the best option is the used market. 

I don't abuse dealers by going in for a listening session and then buying somewhere else for less.

I understand the reasons for buying new and working with a dealer and those are some of the considerations I make when I make a purchase, but I don't limit myself to one specific way of enjoying this hobby.
seanheis1
624 posts
 
This thread is really about your guilt. Using the dealer's showroom as a discovery tool and then doing something like buying Sasha's used for 15k instead of 30k.

If I were in your shoes, I might buy the Sasha's used for 15k and then go back to the dealer and buy very expensive speaker cables. That way you save money and your salesperson and the dealership are treated with a much smaller sale, but one with a much higher profit margin/sales commission.   


lwin's avatar
lwin
570 posts
 
Stereo5 you must be from metro Boston . When I lived there I went to all those stores and Spearit Sound was my favorite. Without consulting notes,Leland remembered exactly what I had in my system , what my price range was and always had excellent recommendations if I was looking to upgrade.  Service like that is priceless. Now that I have moved north I have realized just how lucky I was to have all those great retailers in close proximity. The two stores I have access to now just don’t carry gear in my price range as both say there isn’t a market here for it. So bfjones01 consider yourself lucky. I always operated on the principal that if I demoed a piece of gear at a dealer and I liked it ,that is where I purchased it. 
oddiofyl's avatar
oddiofyl
3,809 posts
 
I bought my Vault from a local dealer.   Same price as online. No tax   No shipping.  First class guys to do business with.  

When you are buying an item that sells briskly do you really expect firesale prices?   When a dealer has leftover last years model that’s when you should expect a deal .  


mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,895 posts
 
If you’ve kept a loyal relationship with a dealer, you should get a solid discount. But even for a 1st purchase, since it’s such a large system investment your’re considering, he should work with you. Such a discount (say 20%) helps, but no it doesn’t close the gap to 50-70% off used pieces. But then you need to factor in warranty support; a lot of warranties don’t transfer to the 2nd owner. That can represent significant value on some of this very expensive to repair (and sometimes finicky) equipment. Furthermore a good dealer will help facilitate repairs and may also have a skilled tech that can perform diagnosis and minor repairs/upgrades. And of course some good dealers will give you good $ value for trade-ins to upgrades, or even for consignment sales.

I still do both kinds of buying. I started out buying mostly used, but transitioned into much more buying from my main authorized dealer once I got much more serious about putting together an awesome system. And yes, I do get better sound. My dealer’s expertise & knowledge is superb. And I no longer have so many doubts like: "what if this piece doesn’t sound its best because it was abused by a prior owner", and: "if this suddenly breaks what are my options".

Furthermore, I’ve found that - more often than not - newer gear from the best companies sounds decidedly better than older models. On these hot new models, the used market discount is much less. In many cases it’s a better deal, overall, to buy from a trusted dealer. Most of the typical gear from the early 2000’s (when I started) sounds absolutely awful compared to the gear of today - and the former is much of what you’ll find heavily discounted on the used markets. Of course there are exceptions, and some very fine vintage gear, but good luck finding it and putting together a whole system that works.

In short - if your dealer can put together 2ch sound rooms that blow you away, he’s an asset - work with him!!
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