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Back to the drawing board

I hate to start this again. I really had my heart set on 2 svs sb3000. But know after careful listening or maybe this time around I realized what was happening.  So I went to best buy just to re evaluate my decision and noticed I did not like what I was hearing.  Thus time around I had a couple of hours and has my significant other with me, oh no what we heard totally ruined our previous thoughts.  In one room I listened to the rel t9i and the svs sb2000.  The svs had the out put but not the detail and it really hurt the mid range and uppers. Lower base was not full or detailed. Now the rel, wow it just blended really nice and was full, detailed and just sounded right. I'm thinking to myself this can't be right. So off to the other room, svs sb 4000, 16 ultra and the rel s5. Now again the svs has the output or pressure. But the s5 totally beats both of them on detail, disappearing,  tight,  full and more sound stage. I went back and forth between these 2 rooms, playing the same 2 tracks I have always demo with. I know my ears would not lie. So now unfortunately I am reading again. I am considering 2 t9i or 1 s3.  I think I will also demo the JL e110 and paradigm defiance x12.  Wish I could demo a rymthik,  but don't know any places to demo. I will make the trip and one place has the JL and rel. 5 miles further down I can demo the x12.  I now know the sound I want and unfortunately it's not svs with its great price and impressive output. I'm sure the subs are great, but not what me and the ms want in our system.  Has anyone demo JL and rel side by side?  I love the rel sound, is paradigm or rymthik as tight as rel. I've never listened to JL.  I guess a road trip is due. Room is 8ft ceiling 14x24, hardwood floors. Thanks for any help you can give. Pete
pcc67
erik_squires
16,900 posts
 
I don’t know if people realize just how BAD room modes below 100 Hz can be.
I’ve measured +- 20 dB in extremely narrow bands. That’s about 100x the power output. With output variations like this it is impossible to get the bass to integrate with the rest of the system.

You either set the bass level too low, giving you no benefit, or set it too high and get overwhelmed by the ringing notes.


a - Treat the room

b - Add EQ to clip those peaks, and enhance the nulls where possible.

Preferably a mix of both, but in that order. If you cannot treat, EQ can still be very helpful.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Treating the room can be quite a challenge for frequencies below 100 Hz. Let me give you an example. Once upon a time I had a standing wave in the back of the room two feet from the wall around 70 Hz, which is below the operating range of Tube Traps that I had on hand. So, what will work for very low frequency standing waves? Not panels, not Tube Traps. One thing that will work is a Helmholtz resonator, but it must be tuned to the correct frequency. The resonator volume and nozzle dimensions can be calculated based on the frequency of the standing wave, 70 Hz or whatever. Thus, the Helmholtz resonator I built for this pupose was a fifteen foot long folded resonator with a diameter of 6”. And it worked!
erik_squires
16,900 posts
 
I can highly recommend GIK Soffit traps below 100 Hz.

Traps don't have to remove a mode entirely, just help drain the energy, then an EQ can take over. So, a partial solution, that is aesthetically pleasing, can do the trick.
jbrrp1
423 posts
 
A pragmatic solution is to go the Audio Kinesis Swarm route, where you use 4 smaller subs asymmetrically positioned such that their inevitable peaks and nulls even out.
pcc67 OP
226 posts
 
I hate to amid it. But all that room correction,  frequencies are over my head. I dont have that kind of knowledge.  My system does sound good and I am going to put down a 10 x 14 thick throw rug. Maybe attempt some simple room correction.  But need to find something easy. I am buying an anthem avm 60 or mrx 720. I was hoping to just push the button on ARC, walk around the room alittle with the Mike and call it a day. Lol. Enjoy some music and HT.  And see what i will do next. Music is top priority.  My HT is 5. Eventually 5.1 or 5.2. After that some atmos. But still music first. I dont need to crumble the foundation for HT.  My speaker do pretty good at HT bass and I'm happy with it. So any sub or subs I add for music will be icing on the cake. Like I said I want music lows, not HT lows. Detail, detail, detail. But I need sub budget around 2500.00.  
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