Why not horns?

There is this device called a,

"SUB-WOOFER"

It is an amazing addition, and improves the sound in more

ways than you would expect.

Properly implemented, not ONLY is the "3d effect" THERE!

But, taking the load off of the mains, the mains can

do what they where made to do.

The Bass, is NO LONGER an issue.

The sheer speed, and visceral effects of the Velodynes,

in addition to the smoothness in the highs and midrange,

IMHO, it just does not get any better.

I Love Music!

I love horn speakers, and agree with just about everything said by those who like them on this thread. One thing is interesting to me though. A couple of posters mentioned that horns have to be perfectly set up and placed, and I am wondering why, since this should not true in theory, and has not been true IME. You can pretty much put horns anywhere and they will sound pretty good (for instance, Cornwalls). Yes, there is of course an optimum placement, but they are generally much less finicky with regards to placement than just about any other speaker type. And yes, horns are directional, but the shape of the horn not only helps direct the sound to where you want it to go, but also helps keep it away from where you don't want it to go. So some types of room problems are either eliminated or are not nearly as bad. Also, though there is an optimum "sweet spot," if you have larger horns such as Altec A7's or Klipschorns, this "sweet spot" can be a pretty large area (depending on the size of the specific room), certainly a bigger area than most other speaker types. And if you are outside this "sweet spot," the sound is still much better than many other types (I have heard some others where if you move your head even an inch there is a radical change in sound quality - why anyone would deliberately design such a speaker is beyond me). In fact, ease of placement is usually given as an argument in favor of horn speakers, so I was surprised to see some posters imply otherwise.

There is this device called a,

"SUB-WOOFER"

It is an amazing addition, and improves the sound in more

ways than you would expect.

Properly implemented, not ONLY is the "3d effect" THERE!


do what they where made to do.

The Bass, is NO LONGER an issue.

The sheer speed, and visceral effects of the Velodynes,

in addition to the smoothness in the highs and midrange>
If you look at my system, you will see that I have a Velodyne DD12 so I fully understand what a sub can do. The speakers I have are run full range with the sub crossed in to blend. They produce 3D imaging with or without the sub. Your comment makes absolutley no sense and is about as condescending as it gets. You state that noone is giving examples of why they don't use horns, then when someone does you imply that they have no idea what they are doing. The CS2's are designed to be flat to 20 hz and are meant to be used without a sub. That is from the designer. I suppose that you know better than him how his speakers should be set up. As far as a speaker that costs 36k requiring a sub to sound right, that is ridiculous as it gets. It better be able to do everything right for that kind of money. And while I said that the mids and highs were very nice, I did not say that they were great or revlatory. That is what I would expect at that price.

It seems that no matter the design, there is at least one person who feels that everyone else can't hear if they don't use the design they favor. It could be stats, planars, single driver, time and phase coherent with 1st order crossover, etc., or in this case, horns. Different people hear things differently. There is no such thing as a perfect speaker. Each person chooses what it is they are willing to live with that is not perfect. I have chosen to not use horns, but continue to be open to being convinced they are right for me. So far, that hasn't happened. One thing for sure, telling me I can't hear is not going to convince me of the superiority of horns.

As Learsfool states, I found the sweetspot to be very wide with the CS2's. This was also my experience with the other directivity controlled speakers that I have owned, the Legacy Audio Whisper. The Whisper was the reason I was so interested in the open baffle bass of the CS2's. In addition, both speakers were easy to place as Learsfool also mentions due to their controlled directivity and open panel bass. I have heard "head in a vice" speakers before and would never by one of them either. As I mentioned above, all of these are strictly my opinions and experiences. It is up to each person to choose what pleases them.

Herman... Sounding like trumpets is a quite precise description of what I find undesirable about horns. I think everyone will understand what I am saying, although they might disagree. As is often said on Audiogon, we couldn't care less about specs...it's how it sounds.

Csm,

If you were trying to address my issue re: "hybrid horns" (i.e. almost any extended range horn design), I think that you may have missed my narrow point. Specifically, I was suggesting that horn loaded drivers increase their output more rapidly than non-horn loaded drivers (subwoofers included). That is, take a GREAT subwoofer (I use Rythmik) and adjust it so that the tonal balance is just right at your typical listening level. Then crank the volume. IME, ALL speakers change character at some point, but horn/hybrids do so more quickly and more audibly.

My explanation - that compression in the non-loaded driver (the subwoofer in this example) - audibly exceeds that in the horn loaded driver. That is, by the way, just a guess - but a guess that explains what I hear. I only hypothesized this after a couple of years living with horn/hybrids and only further tested it with a brief audition, so I can't swear that it's the issue at hand. However, I don know this:

In the systems to which I was referring, you'd need to reset the level of the subs as you increased/decreased volume level in order to maintain consistent tonal balance.
No shot at the subs (and I have used Velodynes, too), just observing the mismatch in dynamic behavior between horn and non-horn loaded drivers - with the acknowledgement that the sample size is too small to produce statistical significance.