Why not horns?

Herman... Sounding like trumpets is a quite precise description of what I find undesirable about horns. I think everyone will understand what I am saying, although they might disagree. As is often said on Audiogon, we couldn't care less about specs...it's how it sounds.

Csm,

If you were trying to address my issue re: "hybrid horns" (i.e. almost any extended range horn design), I think that you may have missed my narrow point. Specifically, I was suggesting that horn loaded drivers increase their output more rapidly than non-horn loaded drivers (subwoofers included). That is, take a GREAT subwoofer (I use Rythmik) and adjust it so that the tonal balance is just right at your typical listening level. Then crank the volume. IME, ALL speakers change character at some point, but horn/hybrids do so more quickly and more audibly.

My explanation - that compression in the non-loaded driver (the subwoofer in this example) - audibly exceeds that in the horn loaded driver. That is, by the way, just a guess - but a guess that explains what I hear. I only hypothesized this after a couple of years living with horn/hybrids and only further tested it with a brief audition, so I can't swear that it's the issue at hand. However, I don know this:

In the systems to which I was referring, you'd need to reset the level of the subs as you increased/decreased volume level in order to maintain consistent tonal balance.
No shot at the subs (and I have used Velodynes, too), just observing the mismatch in dynamic behavior between horn and non-horn loaded drivers - with the acknowledgement that the sample size is too small to produce statistical significance.

Csmgolf has provided a personal account of an honest attempt to make horn speakers work for him. It could be argued that his experience is not indicative of the best that horns can offer but that is not the purpose of this thread. I want people to overcome ignorance of what horns can do and he has certainly made to desired effort.
He says that he is keeping an open mind. What else can you ask of him?

My reach here is toward those who have closed their minds. I don't expect everyone to like what I like but since getting involved in horns myself I have come to learn that there are few areas of sound reproduction that embody misinformation and misunderstanding to the degree that horn loudspeakers do. Even the most prominent horn designers are sharply divided as the best approach. The pre-eminent horn authority at this point in time is probably Tom Danley but I'm sure you will hear arguments about that statement as well.

Perhaps, if enough of us get interested, the forces that guide research will guide the horn. As a technology, simple as it seems,we appear to be dealing with an option that has remained an infant for 50 years.

For those who tak about sweet spots, do some reading about the JBL Everest. Maybe some investigation of B&O experiments with sound directivity and room correction will provide inspiration or spark some imagining. Geddes has a Circle on Audio Circle that is heavily trafficked. Romy has a following. Jonathan Weiss of Oswald's Mill is utterly retro and cutting edge in the same stroke. His designs challenge the best of everything yet stick with horns and single tubes. Bruce Edgar may be the guy who got us all started. Klipsch holds a dedicated following. Jadis created one of the most sought after speakers of all time, all horn. Usher makes a horn speaker that looks very interesting. Bert Doppenberg has been stirring souls and stirring the pot for a couple of decades. Classic Audio Design makes the speaker that Atma-Sphere uses and adores. Field coil drivers are in use there and in the minds of many an entrepreneur. For those who don't know, a field coil uses an electromagnet the way your speakers use permanent magnets.
Have I forgotten anyone? Probably. I'm no expert and I imagine some of what I just wrote contains minor factual errors. I'm too lazy to bolster my recollections with back research for the purpose of this thread. I'd just like to get more people talking and more designers working on horns. I'm sure that tapped horns hold huge potential and I bet that designers can make horns more living room friendly if sufficiently motivated. I understand that the laws of physics are more than just suggestions but I also know that the audiophile community is infinitely resourceful. Our problems lie in the area of media misdirection. The audio press might better be called the audio suppress.

Horns have unexploited potential. Lets get busy harvesting their potential. Most other options seem to have reached their limits long ago.

Dartford, I accept your assessment of what you heard. I am curious what horns you have heard. I realize that might be an extensive list and not worth the bother of recalling but given our diametrically opposed experiences it might help understand where you are coming from.

Macrojack, I would add Jeffrey Jackson and Dave Slagle to your list of cutting edge horn designers. Jeffrey is distributing a line of wood horns and they are collaborating on field coil designs. Check out the Hi Fi Heroin blog at this link to get an idea of how consumed these guys are with it.

http://www.jeffreywjackson.com/

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Lots of personal bias, limited experience, a passing listen now your an expert. Why forum response can be a true waist of time if real info is desired. I can have any loudspeaker design I want I choose horns. And no they do not honk have audible distortions that are problematic for all loudspeakers distort. Yes they image and bass is world class. You get far less thermo compression out of horn designs. After you hear what thermo compression does to musical dynamics hard to enjoy a non horn speaker after. Conventional loudspeakers to me sound like they are working hard to produce signal. A horn system sounds at ease never forced. To me proper horn loudspeakers do most performance aspects better than conventional designs, except, cost, size, maybe WAF. Still to me many with lesser systems who could never afford or get proper horns or loudspeakers past she who must be obeyed of coarse could never except the fact that horns are just better for music. Since this fact hurts to much to except they must make themselves happy with far lesser designs. ;)