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Grace F14 MONO cartridges and styli

Dear all, i have to start this thread because i’ve come across first MONO cartride in my system.

The cartridge is extremely rare Grace F14 (MONO) LC-OFC from the mid 80’s.
I’m a huge fan of the Grace stereo cartridges, in stereo world the F14 LC-OFC is superb, this MM generator is the best ever made along with LEVEL II LC-OFC. As you might know the Grace made so many different styli with different cantilevers and different diamonds for F14 and LEVEL II series in the 80’s.

BUT I know nothing about mono cartridges, because i’ve never used any of them.
And i don’t even have enough MONO records, but i got some for sure.

I don’t play 78rpm SP ... and most of my mono records are 45 rpm (7’inchers) from the 60’s, 70’s, maybe a little bit from the 50’s.

My F14 LC-OFC cartridge has ONLY 2 PINS (not 4 pins like stereo versions). The special lead wire designed for use with mono is included, no problem with that.

Looking at the MONO stylus on my F14 MONO cartridge i realized it is not an SP version described here (definitely not a huge 3 mil. tip), but a nude stylus tip, small just like stereo tip on some other Grace styli that i have in collection. So it’s a good news, because i’m not gonna play 78 rpm anyway.

What i realized by trying this cartridge/stylus on my mono records is a lower compliance of the stylus compared to normal Grace (they are high compliance). The stylus replacement designed for F14 (not for older F9), the plastic shape of the F14 is always different compared to F9.

I’ve searched for MONO styli shapes online and i’ve seen many articles about oldschool conical styli of the different size for the mono records from the different eras. Also about the mono cut on stereo cutterhead.

I could find only one more Grace mono cartridge (LEVEL II) with 1 mil. conical tip described here. 

BUT this post on another forum is the most interesting:

"I play a number of vintage monos (primarily stuff from ’58 to the mid 60’s, admittedly no pre ’57 stuff) here with a modern microridge stylus and would never go back to using a conical on them (having done so in the past). They sound incredibly good with the microridge...

Based on my experience, I feel all the talk of conical styli being necessary to get the best out of mono records is urban legend at best, if not patently false."

If this is true i can use any stylus on my Grace MONO cartridge for my records pressed in the 60s/70s in mono ?

I don’t have a mono switch anywhere on my gear, but since the cartridge pins are designed for MONO only, i believe, i’m safe to cancel vertical noise caused by conventional stylus with vertical compliance ?

I can not detect a stylus shape yet, it can be Conical, Elliptical, Shibata (or maybe even Micro Ridge). I’ve heard they are all good for MONO made with stereo cutter head in the 60’, 70’s or even today.

Let me know what you think, it can be my first mono cartridge then.
chakster
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
@lewm

Does that mean that "vertical signal" is cancelled before it goes anywhere, if a cartridge has ONLY 2 PINS ?

4 lead wires from the conventional headshell are "Y" type for use exclussively with just 2 pins on the MONO cartridge.

I use 2 stereo speakers, of course.

No mono switch on my First Watt and Pass Labs amps (or on the phono stages).

I’m not a mono guy, it’s all about curiosity.

My mono records are not LPs, but a vintage 7’ inch singles on 45 rpm. Most of them have Stereo version of the tune on one side and MONO version of the same tune on the flipside. By Playing MONO side with Stereo cartridge i’ve never noticed an improvement and always prefered the STEREO to MONO. But i’ve never owned a MONO cartridge untill now (Grace F14 LC-OFC MONO)

Cartridges you’re calling "TRUE MONO" are all LOMC, but what about true mono MM cartridges ? What’s makes an MM a "true mono" ? Why Grace MONO can not be a "true mono" ? After all are you aware of any MM with no vertical compliance ? This grace model designed for use with 78rpm only (SP) and the stylus must have no vertical compliance then (or not)? My stylus is different, not for SP, and it does vertical movement, but on a low compliance.

I’m aware of Miyajima, but i think it’s for oldschool MONO records made on MONO cutter before mid ’50s or for very old 78 rpm which i don’t use at all.

My MONO records are 99% 45s made on stereo cutter head (i guess) after mid ’50s (mostly in the ’60s and ’70s).



lewm
13,785 posts
 
Chakster, You wrote, "4 lead wires from the conventional headshell are "Y" type for use exclussively with just 2 pins on the MONO cartridge."  I am not sure I understand.  How do you attach your 4 lead wires from the headshell to two pins on your mono cartridge?

Where did I say that all true mono cartridges are LOMC types?  I didn't say that; nor is it true.  However, if you ask me to name some current MM cartridges that are true mono, I cannot do that, because I have not looked for one.  I am pretty sure Audio Technica makes one that is widely advertised on eBay. Also, you've got one, and it's vintage.

As I wrote above, what I call "true mono" cartridges are cartridges that are built such that they cannot "read" vertical deflections of the stylus tip.  Stereo cartridges that are also marketed as mono variations usually have intact two internal channels that are simply bridged at the output.  These CAN read vertical motion at the stylus, but because of the bridging, the electrical signal produced by vertical motion of the stylus is cancelled.  The result is the same.

Read the Miyajima website. They make mono cartridges for 78s, but they also make mono cartridges for modern mono LPs, using a different stylus from the dedicated 78 rpm type. They probably sell more mono LOMCs than any other company.

You should try a mono 33-rpm LP some time, using your Grace cartridge.  You'll be pleasantly surprised at how great such LPs can sound, and in some cases you won't care that they are not in stereo.

But do tell me how you are connecting 4 wires to two pins.
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
@lewm Well, the "Y" type is just a simbol, if you will look at that simbol this is exactly how two wires from the shell goes to one pin to attach to the cartridge. I got two "Y" type leadwires, headshell got 4 pins, cartridge got 2 pins, the "Y" type wire in between. They are designed only for mono application.

Everything related to the compliance in case with MM is about the stylus, not about the generator. I don’t have that stylus anyway, my stylus have vertical compliance. But i hope a cartridge generator is a true mono as it has only two pins on it.

MC carts for mono is not a subject of this post, it’s completely different design.

Got some mono LPs, maybe just a few :)
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
@sleepwalker65

The Audio-Technica VM-610 MM mono cartridge has 4 pins like a stereo cartridge, so this one is bridged internally as Lewm said.

What’s the benefit of having just 2 pins on the cartridge body? Does it meant to be a "true mono"? 
hdm
1,078 posts
 
Not necessarily "bridged internally". Maybe, maybe not. 

There’s a lot of great info provided by JC in the thread linked below:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/which-mono-cartridge-at-around-1-300-00

Generator and coil orientation is the key. I have come around to believing that very good mono reproduction can be achieved with a conical. Am currently using an AT 33 Mono but would like to try it out with a more sophisticated stylus profile and/or better cantilever material. May tackle that in the future.


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