Want to get into Analog

I'm a 71 y/o geezer and my hair cells are deteriorating.  Hi fidelity was great when it came in.  My father helped pay for his college education playing is small combo's in the pre-war 1940s and gigged some and played sax for fun as an adult.  I tromped across a lot of his 78's as a toddler.  My first stereo was entry level, affordable, Dynaco stuff bought through a catalog in 1968.  35 years ago I passed those Dynaco speakers onto my father with his first and only component system.  My parents are gone and those speakers still sound pretty darn good and one of my sons will pass them onto my granddaughter in a couple of years with some other used components.  I've been through some moderate components and speakers as my income picked up and bought Mark Levinson mono-block preamp and amp, Magnapan 33s and a Velodyne 15 SW, Proceed, Audioquest and Kimberwire  in 1988.  The stuff is probably worth $12 - $14K these days but was bought with the intent that it would be my system of a lifetime.  I'm a doctor and knew then that my hearing would only deteriorate with time.  By the early 1990s I was only listening to digital media, CDs and as streaming and downloads came and quality improved turned to only buying and listening to that medium.  I have sons, two of whom are musicians one like my dad only part time now the other full time in New Orleans.  Twenty years ago I was taken aback by their purchase of vintage turntables and a third son having picked up my old mothballed Technics TT.  At the time they were primarily interested in new "Indy" album releases but they also began getting into some other stuff    Jazz from the 60s and 70s and some classic rock and more recently Jack White and the like. They do listen to their digital mixes and streaming for the most part day in day out.  For me long work hours and the convenience of digital without having to get up to change records and the need for a new cartridge or better TT left me with no interest in my vinyl until a few years ago.  Four to Five Years ago I was fascinated that they were able to discern quality differences between their affordable but good digital systems.  Even as I listened to their systems when vacationing with them in Portland OR or New Orleans LA I could detect differences as well.  Clearly the digital crushed the flaws of the analog recordings but even on those vintage turntables with modestly priced affordable upgraded cartridges there was an appreciable quality to the analog recordings.  I have listened to the latest digital, expensive but getting more affordable and it is true that for my 70 y/o ears it is difficult to appreciate anymore that analog vs digital difference.  I had been sitting on a pretty large Jazz collection from the 1960s through the early 1980s as well as rock including first issue Hendrix, some C&W and Classical.  So three years ago I bought an entry level Pro-Ject carbon TT with a heavy acrylic platter and dived back into the vinyl having slowed down on work hours now finally retired.  I still mostly buy digital media but occasionally buy that special vinyl recording.  Sometimes a well preserved vintage album, sometimes an moderately priced audiophile jazz or rock remaster or occasionally a new artist's album.  When I buy these vinyl albums are special.  That is my background from a lifetime of listening.
This is what I want to tell you.  What we are listening to are art forms.  Only at the turn of the century did recorded music begin to vastly enhance accessibility.  Hi-Fi was good Stereo better and equipment has only gotten better and better.  Live performance is one medium but recording, some in studio and some live are other types of media and the delivery vinyl, CD digital and so on are all valid forms.  Vinyl albums are their own special things.  Think of original one of a kind as in a live performance.  Think of a print, in some cases a limited edition woodcut, texture other kinds of prints or a high quality photo of the work.  My rig is now vintage audiophile.  For me it is still good but there is better stuff for only a little more than what I have in mine.  So I ask.  How much wall space do you have for art work?  How much do you have to spend.  What value do you find in a slightly damaged work from a famous artist.  Are some pieces not about resale value or what others value but what catches your eye, tickles you, makes you laugh or cry?  Is it about what connects you to other sentient beings living and dead?  In short does it deliver?  Many of you enjoy Jazz.  There are no recordings of Billy Bolden perhaps the earliest of Jazz notables but in the early 1940s Bunk Johnson, who was the only living person to have actually played with Bolden in that first decade of the 20th century, was discovered old and toothless in the deep south.  A bunch of those early 40s jazz musicians like Armstrong pitched in to by him a new set of false teeth and a trumpet.  Johnson was recorded live and in studio.  The music was/is wonderful and the recording quality good for the times.  As was the case at the time bass register recording was shallow but his trumpet rings pretty true.  In the late 50s the recordings were remastered in Hi-Fi.  I still have my fathers vinyl 33 1/3 bought in 1959.  The cover and recording are worn.  I also have the album in digital and bought a new re-release 180 gram vinyl album with the original album cover and liner notes for a gift to my musician son in New Orleans.  I still listen usually to the digital (although the vinyl will still play it sounds rough) while holding the old album cover with its wonderful liner notes.
I just recently joined and this is my first post. I don't blog anywhere but have enjoyed reading these Audiogon blogs good for some laughs as well as having found some technical stuff helpful and the perspectives all valuable. So thanks! I would say don't stew too much.  Enjoy, love, laugh or cry and live it up while you can!  Music makes life sweeter.

@haircellcandy-- geezers are welcome in audio.
@mrpostfire-used is the way to go if you know what you are doing; you’ll buy more for the same money. Cartridge- maybe not used (though I’m starting to explore old cartridges).
@frogman - nice spot on that little Thorens for the money.
I also participated in the @freediver thread-and will offer the same observation to @mrpostfire-- ultimately, the biggest outlay, even if you got all spendy on turntable, arm, cartridge and phono stage, will be the records. (Reel to reel tape is a prime example of this-- the source material is what is going to cost you far more in the long run, even if you are running a top tier deck).
It is a commitment. Not something that requires extraordinary knowledge (which can be acquired through time and effort, like anything else) but in freediver’s thread, he was on the fence about whether he wanted to make the commitment and didn’t want to get into the weeds, he wanted plug and play. A lot about playing records is the stuff in the weeds, from basic good quality table, decent arm, cartridges- you can spend like crazy and may not be in much better a place than at a fraction of the cost. Getting it dialed in is key and knowing how to do it yourself is important. Record buying is a lifetime pursuit. Record cleaning is a PITA, but will be important, especially as your collection grows and you explore older copies.

Many of us started modestly- my first table back in 1969? was an AR XA which was a very basic manual turntable that retailed for around 90 or 100 US$. As my interest grew, I upgraded. I still have a few records from the early days of my involvement in this hobby; over the years I acquired many, many more.
The learning, both about improving playback as well as music and various pressings--an ongoing adventure -- is great fun if your interest lies in that direction. I’m still learning and have been around this stuff quite a long time.
I had suggested to freediver that he get a local dealer to loan him a used or demo table to try. I don’t know what your market is for dealers with access to trade-ins, demos and the like. It is almost impossible to evaluate turntables and their associated parts-arms and cartridges in a meaningful way in stores or at shows because there are so many variables at play- (this was the subject of another thread here recently)- but if you could try one at home that would be ideal.
I actually do agree with @orpheus10 to the extent that you can keep improving everything on a vinyl front end, including phono stage, wires, tube rolling, etc. at some cost. But where you realize magic is pretty individual, as is your comfort level on price and adjusting things. (Turntables can be plug and play but you’ll get more out of a good set up by tiny adjustments and learning- something that could be fun or a nightmare, depending on your point of view)

It took many years for me to get where I am-- I didn’t just go into a dealership and write out a check for the turntable I have now. Nor did all those wonderful records I have (and play, though I have more than I could possibly listen to and still keep buying, mostly old copies of things) just land on my shelves at once. It took years and I’m still sorting through copies I own. Time and effort are rewarded in this. And as was mentioned in freediver’s thread, the sonic outcomes are very source material dependent (which is true with CD as much as with the LP).
If you decide this is for you, you can have great fun with it. I think you probably can do it without a deep expenditure of money, but it will take some time and a little effort.
bill hart

Being still curious I have been looking on ElusiveDisc.com, Musicdirect.com,Crutchfield & One Call & am blown away at all the really cool table/arm/cartridge set ups they have from $250.00 to $400.00..Really amazing looking set ups from Project & Music Hall & Rega & others..

Nice post, whart.

**** But where you realize magic is pretty individual ****

Exactly! That was precisely the point of my post. Most of us who have been in this hobby for a long time know all too well that what is considered “better” sound is often very individual. “Magical”? .... that takes the question to an entirely higher level of individuality. To say that a well chosen and very expensive vinyl playback system would sound better than a budget system is stating the obvious; but, I also chuckle at the attempts to assign a specific price point to when it is that the “magic” happens.

For this individual there is a fundamental difference in the way that analog sounds compared to digital. It can be a very subtle difference which gets more and more subtle as the quality of the gear in question improves (more expensive...usually). Other times, depending on the recording, the difference is huge. However, my point was that this fundamental difference can be heard (to varying degrees) even with a modestly priced, well chosen and well set up truntable system. Whether that difference constitutes “magic” for any one listener is another matter entirely. Many listeners new to lp playback are immediately turned off by the presence of even the slightest bit of lp surface noise to the extent that this obfuscates for them what analog is doing right. Others are not and are turned on by the qualitative difference in the sound and their emotional reaction to it; and, for them, it rings true in a way that some digital playback does not. Is he the type of listener that has to sit in “the sweet spot” to enjoy the experience? Or, is he the type of listener that can fully enjoy the music while being in the adjoining room? Again, a personal matter. What is “better”? How much experience does the listener have with live music and what are the preferred genres? These are not judgmental questions as they are often made out to be, but they factor into how the difference is perceived. However, to deem it necessarily a waste of money to not initially invest thousands of dollars to get one’s feet wet in the analog experience? Hardly! Again, it should be obvious that my tricked out TNT6/ET2 setup would sound a lot better than a modestly priced vintage Thorens. But, tell you what, the reason that listing caught my eye was that a neighbor and fellow audiophool owns that same model Thorens and in the context of his modest well chosen system that turntable sounds, to me as well as him, consistently more “magical” than a couple of currently (recently?) popular mid level CD players (OPPO, EAD, ?) that have gone through his system.

Your mention of the AR XA brought back some memories. My first decent turntable was back in college when I purchased a Technics SL-1700 (or, was it 1600?). I was perfectly happy with it and its ADC XLM going into vintage SAE electronics and EPI speakers (I’m showing my age). Perfectly happy until my college buddy brought over his AR XA with XLM. Well, magic would be a pretty good way of describing what I heard as the difference. Having said all that my next turntable will probably be a Technics SP10; or something along those lines.

Personally, I think every person who fancies him/her-self an audiophile and music lover should experience, first hand, analog sound in their system and on their terms (time, place, etc). It may not strike that chord that it does for some; but, it may and at least they’ll know for sure.

A few years ago, serious and learned audiophiles had a debate as to what price point that analog exceeded digital, and we arrived at 3K. Since that was a few years ago, it must be at 4K now.

Once money is spent, it can not be "un-spent". When someone who doesn't know about analog, but wants some serious sound, why recommend something that will not even get them there halfway?

Freediver, is that the cost of your rig $250. ?