Vinyl***What If***

A tale of two rigs......

My main vinyl rig is right about at $6500 retail.

My second vinyl rig is about $340.

And tbh the sq on the second rig is exceedingly good.

Technics sl10 linear tracker with Adzen p mount cartridge and Project phonobox.

Anybody can replicate this for similar money from eBay anytime.

Now does my main rig sound better? Sure it does and so it bloody well should!

But if I was hearing my second rig with nothing else to compare it to I would still be very happy as it is pretty close to cd replay in that system in detail and soundstage and head and shoulders proud in warmth and musicality.

Plenty of great cheaper options available for new vinyl enthusiasts, sure it is a slippery slope and it is also easy to spend money and be dissatisfied too.

Thinking more deeply about this whole philosophy we should definitely be encouraging new vinyl addicts at every opportunity.

Not telling them you need 3K minimum to play in our sandpit.

You're not talking to a "Newbee"; I've been around, I was at the Dead Sea when it died, and I was at the Red Sea when they dyed it red, I can go all the way back to the Gramaphone when vinyl really sucked.

When CD came out, the multitudes had Gerrard, Dual, and BIC tables that cost about $200. or less. Cartridges were "Shure" and others that cost $150. tops; not exactly high end, and that's why CD's sounded high end; no record noise or "snap, crackle and pop".

The multitudes never went back to records; especially after they found out what all the fuss was about (very expensive high-end) I have never seen or heard people so adept at "conflating" things; such as one of those old Dual turntables sound better than CD. That's a blatant lie, and guys who had them would laugh in your face. This new propaganda is just for the "Newbees" who don't know.

"You guys got stock in turntables, or something"?

Out of the multitudes who had those old turntables, they have upgraded everything except the vinyl end; the vast majority are out of vinyl forever, and the numbers reflect that. If the multitudes were into records, record stores would be overflowing, and there would be one on every other corner (slight exaggeration), but the fact that they were busier than a bee hive every Saturday is not an exaggeration.

Any new people who are seduced into vinyl without sufficient funds, will discover for themselves that their digital is better than cheap analog, and it takes almost 3K to even equal decent digital.

What's the point if you're not going to get better than CD? Especially with all the problems that go with vinyl. The multitudes who lived with those problems have said "good riddance", and the numbers reflect that.

After having said what I just said, I thoroughly enjoy the depth and holography of analog, but it ain't cheap, and a degree from analog university helps a lot as well. Do you bother to tell the "Newbees they need to go to analog U"; of course not.

What's the point if you're not going to get better than CD? Especially with all the problems that go with vinyl.

If you are honestly asking that question, you will never comprehend the answer unless you open yourself to understanding how other people think about it.

First, no one is claiming that some vast majority of consumers are going back to vinyl.  Obviously not.  It's a niche, though a growing one that has entered mainstream.  But of course it's unlikely to ever remotely compete with the convenience and cheaper cost of, for instance, streaming digital.

Please remember, also, that judgements about "sounding better" are subjective.  It's not the same as an objective technical claim "measurably more accurate."   I think my system sounds "better" than my audiophile friend's system, he thinks the reverse.  That's why we each bought different systems.

If someone likes the sound of A over B, it sounds "better" to them.


On my previous less expensive (very old Micro Seiki) turntable I often preferred the sound I heard from vinyl albums to my digital source.  Not every time, and I could hear ways in which the digital source was more accurate.  But there was some character to the vinyl playback that struck MY EARS as being very organic, spacious, with wonderful texture and presence and warmth.   You may be in a position to point out the technical failings of vinyl, but you are in no position to tell me that I can't or don't prefer what I prefer.

And if someone finds he prefers the sound of vinyl over digital, it's entirely rational to continue to get in to vinyl.

And as I said non one NEEDS some expensive turntable to PREFER vinyl to digital.  So long as someone's vinyl playback even sounds at all DIFFERENT from their digital playback, they may PREFER it.

And as i said, that has often been the case for people getting in to vinyl even without spending tons of money.  Many PREFER the sound, even if it's not as strictly accurate.  There are also many who do not prefer the sound of their vinyl rig vs their digital, but simply enjoy both for their differences. 


And you fail to factor in the DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE of turntables and vinyl records vs CDs, or streaming.   There is a different mind-set and experience that goes along with the physicality of searching for, buying and owning physical LPs, playing them on a turntable etc.  Millenials - the biggest demographic behind the vinyl resurrgance, have discovered this. They grew up with digital, but have discovered that playing physical records brings them in to a different mind-set and relationship to listening to music, which is why it is flourishing.

The fact that YOU may not care about these things, or prefer sticking with digital, does not entail anyone else is a sucker for getting in to vinyl, even at the non-audiophile level.  If someone is finding the experience energizing and fulfilling, who the hell are you to tell them they are a sucker or shouldn't bother with it?

prof, +10001101010111110000101001 😉

Prof, it ain't that subjective; something that's rated Class A by Stereophile and TAS will sound better than something rated Class C. The only thing that's subjective is the music one chooses to play on the equipment. While there is truth to subjective, it can go beyond the bounds of all truth, to the extent that it becomes a subjective lie: "Hamburger tastes better to me than Grade A porterhouse steak"

My preference is Grade A "holographic" sound whether it's delivered by digital or analog is irrelevant; that's because I can get the best out of both. I didn't spend 30 years subscribing to UK stereo magazines, plus Audio, Stereophile, Stereo Review, and everything related to the reproduction of sound for nothing.

There is nothing the multitudes who lived with vinyl records don't know about it, and they have decided to live without it. Now we got a brand new con game for new consumers who don't know, telling them how special it is, without telling them the price of that "special sound"; that's dishonest.