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Best Way to Integrate Subwoofers?

What’s the best way to integrate subwoofers with monitors, or speakers?

I’m not referring to placement, or room treatments. I’m referring to what’s the best way to integrate via a crossover, without a custom dedicated crossover.

Do you run two separate signals to the subs vs the speakers and supress the lower frequencies to the speakers, while supressing the upper frequencies to the subs? It would seem that this method might allow you to move the crossover to higher frequencies, relying more on the subs for the bass and lower mids - if that is beneficial. It would also seem that this method would permit you to taylor the slope of the crossover to minimize overlap of frequencies between the subs and the speakers, which might improve clarity - depending on the capability of the particular crossover used. And, I suppose it implies / requires a separate crossover to be used to run both signals through to route the mids and highs only to the speakers and the bass and lows only to the subs.

Or do you run the same signal to the subs and speakers and just emphasize the subs up to the bottom of the frequency range of the speakers, crossing over from the subs to the speakers at that point (crossover notch). It would seem that this method would require you to fix the crossover at the bottom of the frequency range of the speakers, wherever that may be, and would not require a separate crossover to be inserted into the signal path. And it would seem to imply that the slope of the crossover would be limited to the slope inherent in the subs and speakers, which would limit the flexibility of the crossover.

Or, does it make any difference?
bassdude
mzkmxcv
777 posts
 
1) Running speakers full range creates phase issues below the crossover point, Gedees advocates this but I disagree, you want all “subs” to be the same model. 
 
2) Digital/Active crossovers are the way to go, especially if somewhat tech-savvy. The MiniDSP SHD is awesome and can also be used as your pre-amp (high enough quality to not degrade even state-of-the-art systems. 
 
3) Crossover where the speakers roll-off, you take measurements; for instance, if doing 2nd order on the speaker, find the in-room -12dB point, and crossover at 2x whatever frequency that is. However, you don’t want the crossover to be >100Hz, as then you get localization issues.
rlb61
742 posts
 
I’ve thought about this a lot and have tried it both ways. At this point, I run the mains full range and bring in the sub at around 60Hz. Why this choice? Because it occurred to me that the capacitors in my preamp are likely far better than the mediocre ones in my JL Audio e110. So, why waste the higher quality components of the preamp by having lesser quality ones drive the power amp? By running the mains full, I have the best quality I have available driving my power amp. Also, if I didn’t have a sub, the speakers and power amp would still be carrying a full load as they were designed to do in the first place.
bassdude OP
462 posts
 
Well - you’ve all given me a lot to think about and experiment with.

I do have a couple of REL T9i’s, as well as a Velodyne and a KEF sub.  So, I guess I’ll start with the REL suggestions... and... go from there.  

But, it sounds like I should have started with the AudioKinesis Swarm, or something like that - perhaps.

We shall see.  
newtoncr
151 posts
 
I agree with James63. I run my kef blade 2s and  Jl Audio f113v2 x2 integrated with a Jl Audio cr-1 crossover, placed between my preamp and monoblocks. 
All the literature in Jl Audio is by Barry Oder .
http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm
Setting up phase using Barry’s technique, (same in the Jl Audio website) and crossover slope at 24db/octave worked best for me. The cr-1 does not add any noise or corrupt the tone of my ayre amplifiers. 
I also have a set up of rel subs set up the way rel recommends using the speakon connectors and they r far from ideal. 
The Jl Audio set up let’s my kefs open up at the midrange and play with so much more ease , while using my parasound jc-1 amps and now my Ayre MXr twenty.
i have talked and worked with many gurus of bass but no one has helped me more than Barry Oder and he is always available by phone to help.


jrpnde
271 posts
 
I have a question...................or two......

There are suggestions from those of this post that obviously have much more knowledge about sub integration than I. But there is a question that may be answered to those who are using an active crossover capable of adjusting the crossover points sent to the subs as well as the mains.......
Should the crossover point on the sub(s) be set to the highest setting and just let the active crossover set the actual crossover value? May seem like a stupid question but if the sub(s) have their own adjustable crossover setting why not just take that capability out of the loop since the active crossover is doing the same thing?" Is there a downside to doing this?

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