@wig how long did you give them to break in. My 8in neodymium took quite awhile before they lost there "shout". I think part of the problem is that they are very very directional. I have them paired with my el34 amp still, but have gone up to the 15in classic alinco driver for my main system. The 15in Audio Nirvanas are connected to an Audio Note Kit 1 300b set amp. With an Ultra Rendu and Chord 2qute feeding the amp, the sound is sublime. Far better than I ever thought was possible, for what I paid. Very happy with the drivers, albeit not for everyone I suppose. Does dramatically improve sound with every backend component upgrade.