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Increasing gain for your vinyl front end when pre-amp doesn't quite have enough juice

Hi Folks, just wanted to get your thoughts on what route you would go if your pre-amp (I’m talking about a normal pre-amp, not phono preamp) doesn’t quite have enough gain for very high listening levels for my turntable set-up. Now, on my phono-pre amp, there is a setting for maximum gain (schiit Mani) up to 59db, but the S/N ratio takes a hit and goes down to 70db, however, it does pump out the needed volume. What about the idea of putting in a good (inexpensive headphones amp/preamp - one of those $99 guys - like schiit Magni, JDS Labs Atom or Monolith Liquid Spark) between the phono preamp and the regular preamp? Does this have the potential of producing the needed gain while at the same time not degrading the signal too much (perhaps not as much as full gain on the Mani?) Just wanted to see what you all think. To me it seems like less items in the signal chain the better, but if it has a higher S/N ratio could be a better option? (with the added benefit of listening to vinyl through headphones, which I’ve never done before.)
bstatmeister
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bdp24
9,582 posts
 

Not to rain on your parade, but for most music, and certainly the Rock it sounds like you may favor, the Magnepan LRS will absolutely require a sub or four. And if it’s a "dynamic" sound you’re looking for, though Maggies have their charms (I own a pair), dynamics is not one of them.

The suggestion of a more sensitive/efficient loudspeaker seems appropriate, and such speakers often also produce a dynamic sound quality. The sound systems at most concert venues use horn midrange and tweeter drivers, so we are used to hearing live music created with their sound character. Rock music-only listeners are often delighted with horn-type hi-fi speakers, which are VERY sensitive/efficient. HSU produces a very inexpensive speaker with a cone woofer and horn midrange/tweeter driver, if you want to try one on the cheap.

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almarg
9,670 posts
 
After looking over the specs and descriptions of the equipment, it appears to me that the root cause of the problem is that the Saga does not provide any gain, even when it is used in its active mode. (Or putting it more technically, its gain is 0 db). And the fact that the power amp is being driven with unbalanced signals, even though it only provides balanced inputs (its 1/4 inch TRS inputs are balanced, as are its XLR inputs), is most likely costing you 6 db on top of that. (The spec that is provided for unbalanced input impedance probably misleadingly refers to the impedance per leg of its balanced inputs).

If the good suggestion that was made of trying the 48 db gain setting of the phono stage does not prove to be satisfactory, rather than band-aiding the problem with a device providing additional gain I would consider fixing the root cause of the problem, by replacing the preamp with something else.

BTW, for everyone’s information the reference to "8W" in the power amp’s sensitivity spec ("1.23 VRMS @ 8W") is undoubtedly someone’s mis-translation of "8 Ω." Based on the specified gain of 34 db, an input of 1.23 volts will drive the amp to slightly more than its rated maximum power (450 watts into 8 ohms). If an input of 1.23 volts would only drive the amp to an output of 8 watts, more than 9 volts would be needed to drive it to full power, which would be ridiculous. And the gain spec would be wrong as well.

Good luck. Regards,

-- Al

gregdude
222 posts
 
I have a mani and  mp 110(same specified output) 48db is the setting you want. 59db does actually overload the mani. On my rig the 48db setting  closely matches the output from my cd player not quite equal, but close enough for me. Give it a try, I think you'll be satisfied. 

        Happy listening!
technick
140 posts
 
@millercarbon seems to be on the right track, IMHO

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kingbarbuda
514 posts
 
In my opinion we are trying to out a square peg through a round hole. I would recommend a system turnover which my require obtaining some used equipment here or on the other well known sites to get you speakers and a system that can do the job you want.
You mentioned your dream speakers were Vandys at $8400. For a fraction of that price you can get the Magnepan LRS which I heard At AXPONA and are a flat out deal at $650 or the .7i or 1.7i (which I own). If you get the .7i or 1.7i, then for less than $600 you can get the MyeStands which will improve dynamics and bass. I used to use a sub with my Maggies. Since the MyeStands, I am selling my subs. For the LRS you may need a sub. Get a small sealed sub. REL or Rythmikaudio. As for an amp, get a used solid state relatively high watt class AB or low watt high bandwidth class A stereo or integrated amp. For Maggies, I prefer the former. If you go with a higher sensitivity box speaker you can go with either. What ever is cheapest but good. That is where the most money is going to go. You may be able to keep the Mani and Saga. But those will be the weak links in your system. Sell the Behringer and Vandys. Yes it’s a partial system overhaul. Welcome to audiophile land!
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