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Can anyone hear the difference when you add REL subwoofers when playing two channel

I wonder if anyone else has had problems hearing a difference when adding REL subwoofers to their two channel systems?  I have gone back to a reputable dealer in town to listen to a pair of Vienna Acoustic Mozart's paired with a REL S3 and I couldn't detect a difference when they added and subtracted the REL.  I wonder if this was because the Vienna Acoustic Mozart's are already can extend down to 30 Hz.  I have also read reviews on the Mozart's and they said one of their criticisms was they felt the Mozart's to be too boomy in the bass.  

The dealer keeps telling me I am expecting to hear a more punchy pounding bass sound and that is not what I should be listening to.  He keeps saying I should be listening for greater depth and space to create a larger sound stage.  He went on to say if I had a subwoofer that delivered too much bass, they would eventually drive me out of the room and spoil my enjoyment of listening to music.  I thought I had sensitive ears to sound, but in this case I wonder if I am tone deaf.  My fear is getting a pair of T/9i's in my home and my wife telling me I wasted our money because she could not hear a difference. 

There must be a reason why so many dealers have told me their first pick would be a REL because they are so musical.

I also question why REL manufactures their subs with such low wattage?  For example, their S3 delivers only 400 watts and their T/9i's deliver just 300 watts.  When comparing them to  subwoofers like JL, which deliver 750 watts to $1500 watts, maybe REL subwoofers are just too wimpy.
128x128larry5729
wolf_garcia
6,711 posts
 
Maybe he's not referring to the Speakon plug itself, but the efficacy of the REL "high level" input design. I'm a fan of the angled Speakon because, a. They keep the cables better sorted (whatever THAT means) and, 2. They're made in Liechtenstein. I terminate the speaker end of the Canare Star Quad cables I use for the subs with spades (bare wires? I'm not an ANIMAL), and pile the 
leads on the speaker posts (one for each negative terminal and two on each hot terminal for identical signals to each REL). The main speaker's amp end of the cables are high quality (ripened) bananas that fit the terminals perfectly. Remember, shrink wrap for cable finishing is your friend.
m-db's avatar
m-db
986 posts
 
OK, gotcha both.

Speakon’s are so well made for years I’ve dreamed of a replacement for the IEE female end of power cables. The majority of my PA snake, monitor, and Bass rig cabling is DIY Canare with Speakon terminations, dependable gear.


Dave, when we did our half baked sub comparison we eventually did over think the beautifully made Studio III. We relocated the sub from out of the corner and set it on its side then fed it processed equalization via low level RCAs from the DD Velodyne. The overwhelming consensus was that it dramatically improved its integration and presentation, demonstrating its weakness wasn’t so much a lack of amplifier power rather the lack of modern sub setup and technology. As I mentioned earlier despite the improvement its owner let it go.
dave_b's avatar
dave_b
3,159 posts
 
Low level connection sucks.  No sub should be in a corner...ever!!  Even with mains (just outside or inside speaker position) facing out or perpendicular along plain of main speakers .  Sometimes near listener/ behind works but that’s more for HT.  I can hear subs if not integrated to the plain of the mains.  2 is ideal but one can do wonders as well.
larry5729's avatar
larry5729 OP
1,008 posts
 
Dave_b2:

I wish I could send you a picture of my living room to show you how my system fits into the room.  There is only about 3 feet between the left and right walls (perpendicular to the front wall) and my long stereo cabinet.  If I would put two subs next to the towers, I would have to move my towers a little closer together (currently spaced 8 ft across) and put the subs between the towers and the outside walls.

I have also been talking to a highly regarded speaker manufacturer and he thinks the Rythmik subs to be far superior to the REL.  If the REL T/9i's are rated at 28 Hz -6 db, he said they would be lucky to play down to 35 Hz.  He said this is woofer territory not subwoofer territory.

If I do that, Rythmik makes their E15HP and a F12 Signature.  What size would you go with.

And the saga moves on!


bstatmeister
537 posts
 
If size is a factor you should do the F12, otherwise why not plumb 10Hz territory with the F15 (although I think F12 can get close). These bad boys can even do high level connection like the REL, just doesn't terminate with the speak on connector. 
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