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Can anyone hear the difference when you add REL subwoofers when playing two channel

I wonder if anyone else has had problems hearing a difference when adding REL subwoofers to their two channel systems?  I have gone back to a reputable dealer in town to listen to a pair of Vienna Acoustic Mozart's paired with a REL S3 and I couldn't detect a difference when they added and subtracted the REL.  I wonder if this was because the Vienna Acoustic Mozart's are already can extend down to 30 Hz.  I have also read reviews on the Mozart's and they said one of their criticisms was they felt the Mozart's to be too boomy in the bass.  

The dealer keeps telling me I am expecting to hear a more punchy pounding bass sound and that is not what I should be listening to.  He keeps saying I should be listening for greater depth and space to create a larger sound stage.  He went on to say if I had a subwoofer that delivered too much bass, they would eventually drive me out of the room and spoil my enjoyment of listening to music.  I thought I had sensitive ears to sound, but in this case I wonder if I am tone deaf.  My fear is getting a pair of T/9i's in my home and my wife telling me I wasted our money because she could not hear a difference. 

There must be a reason why so many dealers have told me their first pick would be a REL because they are so musical.

I also question why REL manufactures their subs with such low wattage?  For example, their S3 delivers only 400 watts and their T/9i's deliver just 300 watts.  When comparing them to  subwoofers like JL, which deliver 750 watts to $1500 watts, maybe REL subwoofers are just too wimpy.
128x128larry5729
larry5729's avatar
larry5729 OP
1,009 posts
 
Hi mzkmxcv,

Could you explain your response?  Are you saying the SERVO technology Rythmik is using does not make sense and it will cause distortion?  Jim Salk sure doesn't think so.  There is a reason why he has partnered with Rythmik.  He thinks they work remarkably well and they will provide significantly greater  amounts of bass extension.  In reality, the REL T/9i will be lucky to play down to 35 Hz, but the Rythmik will be able to play down to 14 Hz.  If you are playing a recording that plays lower than 35 Hz, then you will not be able to hear all the frequencies the song was recorded at.  I want to hear everything I can the way a song is recorded.  REL and Rythmik have two different approaches.  However I talked to both Jim Salk and Brian at Rythmik I feel Rythmik will be the right choice.  When I buy something, I want to say WOW and not have to question myself when I can't hear much of an added difference.  Again, if the Rythmik sounds like a boom box, I have 30 days to return them for full refund.  SVS has this same policy, which I feel is very fair.

Let me know what you think after you talk to Brian.  Don't listen to his sales person because he did not design their subwoofers.

You might want to call Brian, owner, of Rythmik.  I think after you talk to him you will realize how much he knows about sound and especially bass extension.  

I really appreciate your hanging in there with me.  I think we will all agree we have all been at a crossroads when looking to achieve better sound quality.  I just wish I had the deep pockets some of you have.  You also must have very understanding wives.  Here is another subject unto it's own.  Why is it there are very few women involved in this hobby.  I know of one in this group and I am so grateful for her to be among us.
big_greg
6,674 posts
 
Larry, mzkmxcv was talking about the connectors Rel uses, not the Rythmik servo technology. 
jtucker
79 posts
 
I had a two channel system with Magnepan MG12s  I added a single REL sub and you could most certainly hear the difference.  Of course the MG12s don't have much below about 45 Hz, so in my opinion a sub was mandatory.  It took me awhile to get that system set up just right.
larry5729's avatar
larry5729 OP
1,009 posts
 
I still don't know what mzkmxcv is trying to say.  From what Rythmik told me all you need are two RCA cables (one for each sub) which would allow the sub to work with LFE when viewing movies automatically.  Rythmik told me I can purchase the RCA subwoofer cables through Amazon for about $12 to $15.  They said buying more expensive RCA cables are not necessary because I would not appreciate any improved sound quality for purchasing more expensive cables. 
m-db's avatar
m-db
999 posts
 

mzkmxcv740 posts 05-10-2019 5:10pm

It’s the same as using high level inputs. There is no “magic”. The claim is that unlike a line level connection (RCA), the SpeakOn method allows for the subwoofer’s signal to have the same sound characteristics that is being fed to the speaker. However, it’s pretty silly, what that means is you are thus amplifying a signal that already has been amplified, so it has lots of distortion/harmonics/noise, rather than amplifying a much cleaner signal.
 

Yep. Some amplifier designers are offering a direct preamplifier connection to their amps bypassing the amps input components altogether.

During our comparison using the low level RCA to the Studio III and bypassing the high level connection from the Ayre V-1xe we could hear and see a slight but definite frequency extension on the room response graph. 

In our room the most effective adjustment after the crossover point was by reducing the Studio IIIs gain. Using equalization and Room Optimization allowed a bit more gain and much better integration with the Studio III but no where near the integration of the other two DSP subs on hand.

Differences in room and environment are an important and unknown element during a casual subwoofer performance discussions on the internet. With three subwoofers in a room at the same time individual performance becomes obvious even for the most inexperienced listener.

After this comparison when I read claims of seamless or perfect subwoofer integration my first thought is, compared to what? I'll admit I'm a fanboy but I could care less if someone purchases any product that I use. 

Politely offering ones subjective experience is not bashing its merely responding. 

After a year of dialing in my main speaker positions an industry professional graciously came to my home and moved my speakers a few inches dramatically expanding the sound stage. I don't think there are more than two or three who frequent this site who have that level of expertise. One of those people is participating in this thread and he seems to be a satisfied REL owner.

Larry, good luck with your choice and have fun with it. 
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