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I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance

I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
audioguy85
noromance's avatar
noromance
10,043 posts
 
@audioguy85 The thing is this - I have had the same issue over the years and then one day, it stopped. I got things right.

Please try this as I have suggested before:
1. Replace (as a test) your speaker wire with 14g Romex. (silver-plated OFC can be unkind to sililant vocals)
2. Replace (as a test) your Marantz power amp with something else. (I’ve read comments about it being grainy and bright.)
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,029 posts
 
I gotcha......but I have to disagree on the marantz pm14s1. I have read no where that its grainy and bright. It is actually one of their warmest amps of late. Its basically an updated version of the previous pm 15s1. I do agree however that silver cabling can sometimes be an issue with brightness, however all my components are warm, the classic sb turntable, the hana el, the marantz, and especially the wharfedales. Copper or the romex u speak of is known to be warm, so u may be on to something...although it’s the first time I’ve ever heard that suggested for a speaker cable option. All the reviews of that marantz indicate warmth, and thus far it is what I’ve experienced as well. I actually have a biwire set of audioquest type 4’s I could swap in as a test as well. The only other amps I have on hand are the rogue sphinx v2 and another marantz, the pm8006....I guess I could try either as well, when I’m feeling energetic! What a pia with all the wiring I’d have to unhook etc....lol. how did you terminate the 14g romex? Or did you just leave it bare? The marantz only has one set of speaker terminals so I’d have to get creative. Right now my qed’s are terminated with both bananas and spades on amp end to facilitate connecting to amp for biwiring. The audioquest type 4's are already terminated so I think I'll try those prior to testing with romex. Also, the type 4 has no silver content, just a combo of stranded and solid copper conductors I believe. 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Singers: When a vocalist is about to hit a power note, they must move their mouth away from the microphone. You've all seen it, and heard it. If they don't, they overload the mic.
No, that's not it. What they're doing is exploiting the way a microphone's frequency response changes with distance. Up close its boomy and bass heavy. Further away the bass reinforcement falls off and the higher ranges become more clear.

Either that, or all those supremely talented and highly paid performers are putting up with crappy easily overloaded microphones. Time after time. Everywhere they go. Forever. Instead of just asking for a better mic.


jdub071
71 posts
 
Well, I suppose we all have to be OCD about something.....I have seen this Canadian on you tube, can't think of his name, think Farraway is his last who is a musician by trade and ends his rant with "remember, vinyl is final" he also crafts home brew beer, maybe that has something to do with it....but he is missionary in his zeal to get rid of sibilance and has gone thru a lot of carts. His current fave is Ortofon Blue. I've heard it on his you-tube channel and it does sound real smooth and sibilance free w/his new Fluance signature turntable. That being said it doesn't sound natural to me. I think sibilance is just part of the recording process so I don't really care if it shows up in certain passages, usually women's vocals. This is not my first rodeo w/vinyl. Back in the '70's I had an audiophile table...an ERA 48 pole synchrous motor belt drive (made in France) with a Grace 707 tone arm and tried various carts but Grado's had just came out and for the money blew away about any offerings from Shure, Empire or the usual suspects. I don't remember anybody back then complaining about sibilance. I have about a 40 plus year old Linda Ronstadt recording called simply Linda Ronstadt which is my fave Linda Ronstadt with classics like "Rock me on the Water" (which gives me goosebumps, and not from the sibilance which it has plenty of. I have set up with my Nagaoka mp110 with a protractor on my ATLP-5 turntable by Audio-Technica which was an award winning table in its price range. I mated it with a Schiit Mani preamp which is highly rated in it's price range and sounded good. But when I got a new amp and preamp, Emotiva PT-100 and Bas-x A-150 it exhibited too much hum and I quit using it and used the inboard pre-amp which has no hum at all and sounds as good as the schiit, anybody want to buy a phono preamp? Also have Elac B-6 speakers with rolled off highs and still get sibilance with this album I cherish. So I'm going to enjoy it and chalk up sibilance to the recording process. What I am OCD about is hum.
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,029 posts
 
Noromance, just to add, I have listened with several pairs of headphones to these recording while playing them on the different turntables. I still hear the sibilance here and there on the headphones. Also, it is there whether I go through the marantz amp or my musical fidelity headphone amp. So I think the fact that I can hear it through headphones should pretty much squash the possibility that it’s my amp, speakers or speaker cables. I’m back to believing its just the darn pressings...
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