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I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance

I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
128x128audioguy85
cousinbillyl
190 posts
 
Let's look at two other things; AM/FM radio, and a singers understanding of microphone dynamics.

AM (amplitude modulation): AM is a poor conduit for high frequencies. In the early days, if a recording engineer thought he had a chart topping hit, he would tip up the high frequencies. Fleetwood Mac Rumors is a prime example. Sounds fabulous with car tweeters, not so with hard dome ones.

FM (frequency modulation): FM is much better with high frequencies. By the 70's/80's most cars had FM, so you didn't need to tip anything. Radiohead OK Computer is my conundrum. Fabulous in the car, horrid on my stereo.

Singers: When a vocalist is about to hit a power note, they must move their mouth away from the microphone. You've all seen it, and heard it. If they don't, they overload the mic. 

Such is the life of an audiophile.
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,001 posts
 
Noromance....maybe....but I tend to think that even if I spent 3 times as much on gear, the sibilance would still be there....its in the pressing, at least some of them. That was whole point of the test. Thankfully i had three turntables on hand to do it. I actually have a fourth! It’s still in box and has the ortofon 2m silver. Maybe I’ll crack that open and try a fourth turntable/cartridge. The likely scenario imo is that the sibilance will still be heard on the effected pressings....
Just to add, my system plays instrumental music and high frequencies with utmost clarity, with zero harshness, at least to my ears. It's just on a random pressing here or there that I can hear the sibilance, mostly on female vocals, but sometimes on Male vocals as well. I have a louie prima record that is old and it is unlistenable on anything I tried playing it on. Unknown if just worn grooves or just the pressing itself. 
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,475 posts
 
@audioguy85 The thing is this - I have had the same issue over the years and then one day, it stopped. I got things right.

Please try this as I have suggested before:
1. Replace (as a test) your speaker wire with 14g Romex. (silver-plated OFC can be unkind to sililant vocals)
2. Replace (as a test) your Marantz power amp with something else. (I’ve read comments about it being grainy and bright.)
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,001 posts
 
I gotcha......but I have to disagree on the marantz pm14s1. I have read no where that its grainy and bright. It is actually one of their warmest amps of late. Its basically an updated version of the previous pm 15s1. I do agree however that silver cabling can sometimes be an issue with brightness, however all my components are warm, the classic sb turntable, the hana el, the marantz, and especially the wharfedales. Copper or the romex u speak of is known to be warm, so u may be on to something...although it’s the first time I’ve ever heard that suggested for a speaker cable option. All the reviews of that marantz indicate warmth, and thus far it is what I’ve experienced as well. I actually have a biwire set of audioquest type 4’s I could swap in as a test as well. The only other amps I have on hand are the rogue sphinx v2 and another marantz, the pm8006....I guess I could try either as well, when I’m feeling energetic! What a pia with all the wiring I’d have to unhook etc....lol. how did you terminate the 14g romex? Or did you just leave it bare? The marantz only has one set of speaker terminals so I’d have to get creative. Right now my qed’s are terminated with both bananas and spades on amp end to facilitate connecting to amp for biwiring. The audioquest type 4's are already terminated so I think I'll try those prior to testing with romex. Also, the type 4 has no silver content, just a combo of stranded and solid copper conductors I believe. 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Singers: When a vocalist is about to hit a power note, they must move their mouth away from the microphone. You've all seen it, and heard it. If they don't, they overload the mic.
No, that's not it. What they're doing is exploiting the way a microphone's frequency response changes with distance. Up close its boomy and bass heavy. Further away the bass reinforcement falls off and the higher ranges become more clear.

Either that, or all those supremely talented and highly paid performers are putting up with crappy easily overloaded microphones. Time after time. Everywhere they go. Forever. Instead of just asking for a better mic.


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