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Final piece of the puzzle: digital correction in a suboptimal room

Hey guys!

I’m in the process of upgrading/tweaking my system and there’s one "final" piece of the puzzle I need to find.

Current setup:

  • Speakers: Klipsch Forte III
  • Subwoofer: Klipsch R-115SW
  • Amplifier: Hegel H190
  • DAC: Chord Hugo 2
  • Room size: 4*5 meters (roughly 13*16 ft)
  • Four wall-wall corners treated with GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap
  • Two front wall-wall-ceiling corners treated with GIK Soffit Bass trap
  • Side walls, rear wall and ceiling early reflection points treated with Monster bass traps

Considering the small size of the room and the big size of the speakers, I reached the conclusion that a quite heavy acoustic treatment was needed for both bass and mid high early reflections (as you can see from all the acoustic treatments in my setup). I’m still waiting for the panels to be delivered though (looking forward to!!).

My next move would be that of using digital correction as the final tweak to reach a flatter frequency response curve in my room (or at least in my listening spot). But how?

Few considerations:

1) I’d like to use my Chord Hugo 2 dac somewhere in the chain. I suppose the audio chain will be something like: Macbook --> DSP device --> Hugo 2 DAC --> Amplifier --> Speakers
2) I’d like to have only one digital-analog conversion (carried by Hugo 2)
3) I don’t have a clear budget. I’m willing to spend money if the solution proposed solves my pain in a elegant way. Say 2000 usd max?

Questions:

  1. What DSP device/software would you suggest me to get?
  2. The Klipsch Forte III frequency response: 38Hz – 20kHz (+/- 3 dB) How should I cross over to the subwoofer? At which frequency? At around 40Hz, 60Hz or 80Hz? And why?
  3. Where should the subwoofer fit in the chain in a way that it gets its input signal converted by Hugo 2?
  4. But then, if I place my subwoofer after the DAC in the audio chain, will the DSP device still be able to control the sub’s input signal separately from the Forte speakers? (so that I’m able to have control on crossover points between speakers and sub)
  5. BONUS: It might be nice to have a system where I'm able to stream wirelessly from iPhone/Macbook (Airplay, Aptx) to the whole chain. Maybe a DSP device with integrated streamer? (furthermore consider that the Hugo 2 is able to do that via bluetooth aptx and the amplifier Hegel H190 is able to receive through Airplay and bluetooth aptx)

Thank you so much guys for your help!!


egoquaero
erik_squires
15,983 posts
 
Hey egoquaero,
Kudos on getting GIK treatment for your room.

I honestly think you have too much speaker here, and are overthinking / over purchasing.

What you are not realizing is how much room gain you are going to get, and how bad the room modes will be. On top of that, with the amount of efficiency (99 dB) you can trade output for bass very easily. This means to me you have tremendous capabilities to produce bass already.

With your choice in mains, get an integrated or pre with built in room correction, and try it without a sub first.

Alternatively, get significantly smaller mains and keep the sub.


Best,

E
egoquaero OP
7 posts
 
Hi erik! Thanks for your suggestion!
However I don’t have intention to change main speakers, amplifier or leave out the subwoofer (bought most of them recently haha :D). I got the Fortes for their impactful management of dynamics and I love it even in my small room. My next upgrade is definitely my house :D
I know that the integration of a subwoofer is always tricky, especially in a small room. However, being a heavy electronic music listener among other genres, I very often incur 20-40Hz frequencies. And I’m willing to sacrifice a bit of imaging, clarity, transparency and so on for those sub frequencies

erik_squires
15,983 posts
 
Hey OP:
Your speakers, tuned properly, could do flat 20-40 Hz in that room.

If you are looking for a dance club experience though, you don't want flat, or extended. You want output!!  That makes more sense. However, room modes will force you to keep the levels low unless dealt with.

Alright, I suggest you forego the outboard DAC, and get a pre with built in DSP. Anthem and Antimode are a couple of brands with very positive reviews which are reasonably priced.


Otherwise, if you must use Chord, and you want to avoid a second A/D / D/A conversion step, your remaining choice is to EQ only the subs.

The issue is, in my mind, those big speakers are already going to be subject to significant room issues, and you need that EQ there.


Now, if you want asbolutely complicated, but you must have your Chord and must have your subs, miniDSP does make digital only EQ's. That is, they are digital in, digital out and will feed your chord.

But I strongly suggest your effort time and money will be best rewarded by using built-in room correction. Tricky does not begin to explain the issues otherwise.

Best,
E
erik_squires
15,983 posts
 
There is another alternative I just thought of, and full disclosure, it's cause I'm selling one!

I have a Parasound P7, highly rated as a 2 and multi-channel pre. I have gone to an integrated, so no longer need separate pre/power amp.

The reason you might like it is that it has built in subwoofer management (but not EQ). 

That is, it has a built in crossover, letting you limit the output to your mains, and sending the rest to your sub, where you can use a very nice miniDSP to control it.

Best,
E
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Or you could add three more subs and have much deeper, smoother, and insanely more articulate bass, without the correction. Which will never no matter what you do get you as good as the four subs.


being a heavy electronic music listener among other genres, I very often incur 20-40Hz frequencies. And I’m willing to sacrifice a bit of imaging, clarity, transparency and so on for those sub frequencies


No single sub and no amount of correction will ever get you where you want to be. With four on the other hand it is easy. Also with four the imaging, clarity, transparency and so on is even better. Read some of the Swarm/Distributed Bass Array threads.
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