It's a short riding season around here so probably the fall, however I did just get a pretty good deal on a pair of dsp8000's that I have the se kit ordered for and these might end my search completely.
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As a previous three time Paradigm owner the Persona 9H is the best Paradigm I’ve heard and still as annoying for me to listen to. I can’t listen to speakers with screwy time and phase characteristics regardless of their price. For the cost of your choices I’d go for Vandersteen Treo CTs $9K /pr. and his Sub 9s $19K /pr. Spend a few days listening to the Treo’s, disregarding their bass extension, then back to your current choices and you should be able to hear the rightness of the time and phase aspect. Been using sealed subs since the mid eighties. The rooms have always dictated their location and its never been in or next to the main speakers. |
sciencecop midrange, is typically the frequency range between 300Hz and 5,000Hz. 400 hz is the beginning of midrange...not "the middle". DSP in 9H only corrects bass region (until 200 hz). |
@nabcs Hate to break it to you; your speakers are DSP up to 400Hz. From The Persona spec page:“…(two front-firing, two rear-firing). Each woofer pair is powered by a separate DSP-controlled 700 W RMS”. Of course, why would you know, even their top seller/promoter didn’t bother to learn how they actually work. Also, 3rd order XO at 400Hz means you are only 18db down at 800Hz, etc. Most of your midrange is overlapping with a delayed DSP signal (rolling off, but still audible). No wonder these speakers sound as “annoying” as they do. |
Sciencecop, it is interesting that you get your facts wrong all the time. First of all you have no idea how the Paradigm engineers designed the system. The rear woofers may be the only drivers that are being used with the room correction signal and those are crossed over at 200hz. Did you actually talk to their engineers and see how they designed the system? So it is entirely possible that the front firing woofers have 0 dsp being applied to then. As per annoying the speakers can sound great as good or better than anything else at the price and then some. If your issue is DSP than the Persona 7F would be your loudspeaker, there Sciencecop same speakers no DSP at all. The reality is that the clean, well defined bass response which eliminates huge peaks and valleys in your bass response helps make the speaker sound cleaner especially in the lower midrange. How many systems sound bloated and murky because there are huge overlaps in bass information from corner loading or other bass nodes? Interesting that we all perceive things differently. We have heard all the current Vandersteens and quite frankly find them exceedingly okay sounding and hardly the best and only loudspeaker out there. We have heard many of the Magicos at shows and found them mostly to be boring sounding, and if you note the frequency response graph the S5MK II in stereophile they show a 3-5db dip in much of the frequency response. What is weird is the A3 at the NY Audio show are super aggressive sounding and disjointed. We no of two people on the boards that had Vandys and found them way too problematic for them and both of those people have moved on to other speakers. One of these guys bought a pair of Kef R11 from us. As we have stated time and time again, no pun intended many of the most favored loudspeakers on the market are not time and phase aligned designs. So if you like Magico, Wilson, Rockport, KEF,Focal, Radiho, Von Schweikert, Harbeth, Martin Logans, etc than you must be broken. The truth is not everyone is sensitive to time related distortions and many loudspeaker designers feel that the first order slope passing information the drivers are not designed to handle creates distortions that you can not easily tune out, look, at a Thiel crossover with all the components on the board used to control the drivers in order to create a seem-less blend from the drivers that they designed. Other issues with first order designs are increasing distortion at higher volumes. So it seems that no design is perfect and all of these loudspeakers can sound great or not great depending on your taste, room acoustics and system matching. What we really love is Sciencecop telling Contuzzi, Steve59, Us, Nabcs, Yysantabarbera, that we are all out of our minds for not subscribing to his world view. Many people are buying and enjoying the new Paradigm Persona speakers, are they perfect no they are not, they do a lot of thing very well, transparency, image holography, deep tight bass response, easy to drive and stunning looks all for a very competitive price. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers |
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