Sub to complement KEF LS50s: SVS vs. Rythmik


Hi all. I'm considering adding a subwoofer to my current set up: Bluesound NODE2i (Tidal MQA) to Cronus Magnum II to KEF LS50s. I'd like to supplement the KEF's on the lower ranges.

I'm considering 2 subs and have located a few deals:

  1. Salk Sound Rythmik F12 in white for ~$1100 
  2. SVS SB4000 for ~$1200

I particularly like the room control on the SB4000, but am not wed to it. Any thoughts between the two? Anything else you'd recommend in this price range?

A few other notes: room is 12 x 30 feet, with a wall of windows (NYC condo). Acoustic paneling is next! Likely don't need all the size/wattage that either of these subs provide. Perhaps getting a MartinLogan "X" with the room correction could suffice, but would rather buy top notch and be done with it.

I'll utilize this for 75% music / 25% movies. Music tends to be bluesrock/jam bands/jazz

jdtalv
Hello mcreyn,

     I agree with almost everything you posted.  I mainly agree with your 3rd point but would just add that any achieved overall system performance gains, made from high passing your main speakers, are dependent on the degree to which your main amp(s) and main speakers benefit by being relieved of deep bass duties. The higher the main amp's power and the higher the bass extension limit of the main speakers, the smaller I believe the overall system sound quality performance gains will be.


Hello dancub,

     Adding a 2nd properly positioned and configured SVS SB-1000 sub to your system, in my opinion, would result in the bass being perceived as sounding roughly twice as good as a single sub even in your relatively small room.  You'll notice a general sense of ease to the bass, an increase in maximum bass output and an increase in the realism of bass dynamics due to the total bass duties being shared between two subs   
 neither of which is operating near its limits and both having ample reserve power for reproducing the powerful bass dynamics of music heard live at a small venue.  
     You'll also notice the psychoacoustic benefits to the sound that result from the use of multiple subs in any given room, that come into play beginning with two subs producing bass in a room and that are further enhance perceived bass quality in degrees up to a practical limit of four subs.  The clearly noticed progressive bass quality improvements noticed with multiple subs in any given room are an increase in perceived bass detail, speed, smoothness and improved blending or integration between the bass reproduced by the sub(s) and the midrange to treble reproduced by the main speakers.  The overall sound will sound progressively more cohesive as subs are increased from one to four in degrees.
     I know the SVS SB-1000 subs are small in size but very good performers that are a steal at the current price of $499 each.  My opinion is that buying and trying a 2nd one is a low risk and bargain price to experience bass response performance that I'm confident you will consider approaching state of the art even in a smaller room such as yours. Worst case is you try it out for 30 days, don't notice the improvements and return it for a full refund. Best case is you try it out, discover you suddenly have exceptionally good bass response in your room/system and begin thinking of the further gains possible by adding a 3rd or the ultimate fourth sub.  Other important qualities of your sub is that it's relatively small, has all the important configuration controls and overall is an ideal sub to be used in multiple sub systems.
     I should also mention it's very important to precisely position and configure each sub once you enter the wonderful world of multiple subs. I have a lot of useful experience and knowledge positioning and configuring 1-4 sub bass systems gained through research and using them in my own system as well as setting the up for friends' and relatives' rooms/systems and I enjoy spreading the word on how well the concept works and assisting setting them up.
       Of course, the decision is yours but I'm also willing to help you out with the optimum positioning and configuration if you'd like (I'm retired and have the interest and time).  But I'm also sure SVS's call in support could also assist with this if you'd prefer.    
        
nobel100
Wow, thank you for the input. Your last point is one I've wondered about over the two years I've had the SVS...positioning. I recently read...who knows where...that in spite of traditional wisdom (i.e. you can't tell where those frequencies are coming from), that location can make a serious difference. What I remember is that they should be side ways from the primary speaker and behind. My current one meets the first but not the second criteria...if I'm remembering correctly....but bass integration in my room is pretty reasonable.  Actually, what I have been paying attention to most recently has been the lack of crispness or depth of voices (particularly female singers). This may be source material but the ones I love (Holly Cole, Siri Svale, Patricia Barber) have typically been well regarded productions. I'm going to take a rain check on your kind offer to help with the bass things until after I try out your recent suggestions (above) for bass management and play around with positioning to see if that helps with this "crisp" issue.  In between my own over abundance of retirement hobbies.  Cheers and thanks!
@mcreyn 
Point 3. Right?

@noble100 
Thanks for the help. My system currently costs less than a pair of KEF LS50s.

KEF Q150s - I paid $300
Monoprice Monolith Stands - I paid $75/pair
Peachtree Decco65 - $400 craiglist special
Google Chromecast Audio - $35
Sub - $20 craiglist special

I initially thought the sub would degrade from the definition in the Q150s, but it enhanced everything. Having some sub was better than having none. The casing of the sub says it is a Jensen JS1000-A. But looking at the driver underneath, I see the driver was swapped out for a Kenwood--possibly a car driver. Sorry for any heart palpitations this may have caused, but this is the reality of budget Fi. You'll be happy to know that I could hear the difference between Spotify and 16/44.1 once I placed the Q150s on stands. And know I can't go back! (Spotify and 16/44.1 sounded identical with the mains on a desk.)

I currently run speaker cable from the Decco65 to the speaker level input on the sub, then speaker cable to the Q150s. But I bet the Decco65 pre-out doubles as a sub out. Have to double check, though. Still, the Decco65 only puts out 65w, so allowing the sub to take over the probably helps free up power for the mains as you described, noble100. 

I have the crossover on the Jensen set to 50hz since that is the 3db falloff on the Q150. And I have the volume set appropriately on the sub to achieve a flat sound signature. 

The only way I would it would appear that I could daisy chain subs with the Jensen is through the speaker level input. 

As far as a sub upgrade, I have considered both the Rel 5Ti and SVS 1000. Rel seems to be of the high level input persuasion.
jdtalv, the SVS, and I've never even seen one. 

  Your going to need all the signal processing you can muster to begin a worthy crossover between the two unless you've considered an even more sophisticated method of manual multi band parametric variable phase, gain, and Q DSP, in which case most any box will do.

  Read as many DSP setup procedures as possible for a better understanding of how using a higher crossover point and adjusting the Q can attain a smoother transition that will more closely match your main speakers presentation in the crossover region.   

  My experience with integrating powerful subwoofers with small speakers has been quick and easy using a sub that seems to be out of production because of the manufacturers success in another field of endeavor. This same manufacture patented servo monitoring and control and found a better solution three generations ago. (calvint, you gave up too soon)

  This is in no way a substitute for proper positioning or the use of multiple subs which are delightfully explained here, elsewhere. Have fun with it.  
M-db

I owned 6 different subs from that manufacture, starting with their original 80s design. My  Rythmiks represent a step forward.