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Swapped long wall to short wall and now I am having some big issues

I have a 14.5 x 27 ft x 8' room (it is narrower at 12 ft (the last 6 ft on the end where I have the speakers)


I had my system aligned on the long wall with the rack in between the speakers.

The speakers were 9' offset from listening position and the side wall were so far away (and had two record cabinets) that they were out of the equation.  I had real traps mondo bass traps in the corners and GIK art panels to handle slap echo.

The sound was excellent - great tonality, dynamics, imaging. The only issues I had were a limited listening area and not back enough for full speaker driver integration.


After listening to a friends system in a 12x23 room - old home with wood construction I was a gasp. His system was short wall and there was great integration with easily 2 rows of 3 people could sit and listen. It was a very relaxing and engaging experience.


Fast forward. I made the move. knocked out a closet in the corner. Removed one of 2 floor to ceiling record racks, a Wurlitzer jukebox, and Victrola.  I placed the equipment racks on the opposite side wall.  The speakers were set up 2 feet from the walls in front of the two corner bass traps. The sound was dreadful.  The once luscious mids were thin and highs (1.2-3khz) were bright and cymbals were brittle, hard strumming acoustic guitars and brass sounded terrible as well.  If the music got dynamic - it sounded terrible.


The vinyl was bad - cd atrocious.


I went ahead and took all the acoustic panels out except the GIK art panels.


I did some research and bought some GIK Impression 2' 2" panels for first reflection  and GIK Impression 1' 4" diffuser/bass panels for the front corners allowing absorption from the back.  This was much better but still way off.  I moved the speakers out from the wall and then the instrument subtle details snapped into place - at 6 ft this was most apparent however it developed a very bloated mid bass.


I am looking for ways to tame the high end and mid bass but bring out the mid range,  I do not want to over treat.

This in incredibly frustrating as I had my sound very refined and the short wall setup should theoretically produced better results.  I would be interested in your comments and suggestions.


Thank You

128x128audiotomb
audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb OP
1,112 posts
 

Stringreen

I have only had this happen one other time.

I put two too many absorption treatments in my system and it suffocated things. A huge blanket over it all and a very shrill top end.

All the best in resolving your issues and thanks for the encouragement. Check out Jim Smith’s Get Better Sound book and video and in house Room Play services (not cheap). He also consults via email. His grid setup has been very useful to me in the past. That's why I am so stumped now - as I can't find something that converges without major trade offs.


The one assurance is that I can put things back to where they were and I just found out that a less than optimal long wall setup works.


I was looking to upgrade my speakers to the Apollo series and they would require a farther offset distance and utilize the length and width of the room more effectively.


Twoleftears

thank you for your insight (also 3 posts into the thread). It was on my list to try but I wanted to see if speaker position and ideally placed treatments would work. This allows a wider and longer room.

The great thing is that this idea only costs one’s time and patience.


The easy solution to going diagonal without moving the main rack is to move rack 2 on the same wall to the left of the main rack on the front side of the room and bring the speakers more into the corner.

There is an open doorway behind the couch. The back wall would not be parallel and have a strong corner but having the couch far enough away from it the wall would help.


The first reflection treatments would be quite different and probably out in the room and need to be in front of equipment. These reflections could be less problematic as apposed to a 12' offset short wall.  Placing panels on stand up footers in front of the first reflection add door each time I do a listening session could work.


It might make sense to move the racks to the opposite long wall and possibly add the other record cabinet back on the front wall.



I haven’t given up and I really appreciate everyone’s comments

thank you

audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb OP
1,112 posts
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Pf0ycbyBM&list=PLA69AF2D5CFB3955D&index=83


this looks interesting

Bob Robbins of   MySpeakerSetUp.com


use the long wall - effectively no boundaries

able to get imaging well  beyond the speakers

this was dialed in at my house


off the wall and toe in - work speakers in tandem

set positioning  to the sound in the room not the tape measure

rake - raise to the minimum amount where the musicians rise up and the sound opens up/ equal via laser


I did get much better sound that way - just didn't like dealing with only 14.5 room depth


will try a few more short wall experiments

haven't really utilized rake before.


mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Audiotomb so instead of acting as two voices above 2000 Hz they are acting as two voices above 3000 Hz. 20,000 Hz is about 1/2 inch. There in lies the problem with using multiple drivers for tweeter arrays. This is why tweeters like the Magnepan ribbon and any ESL produce better treble. All of the best dynamic speaker manufacturers like Magico, YG, Wilson and Sonus Faber use one high capacity tweeter. I can't but help believe they are doing this for a reason. One voice. Now these are very expensive speakers beyond the reach of most of us. In less expensive speakers you have to make compromises. Some work reasonable well others do not. But it is your system and you have to be happy with the sound. My speakers are in no way perfect but I can live with the compromises for the time being. 
mikethehunterguy
50 posts
 
I would seriously consider setting up your system across a corner. I was forced into an asymmetrical setup in my basement listening room (20×30×10), and tried short and long wall setups. After seeing the genius Rodger Sanders' setup at AXPONA., I went cross corner. Simply amazing. No diffusion or absorption at first reflection points, as the reflections occur at an oblique angle. Bass tends to smooth out because the long and short wall modes average better. You might consider corner damping (next step for me) to eliminate any horn effects. Although I haven't noticed any issues.  
I have measured the room in all the setups I've tried.  The corner setup is BY FAR the best measuring yet. Try it, you might like it.
audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb OP
1,112 posts
 

thanks Mike

That was one of my next steps

(but I won't be moving any racks initially)

My room is narrower at 12' at the shortest end

14.5 in the middle and 27ft long

There would be a doorway right behind the couch

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