Searching for matching(?) Subwoofer solution

Dear @bdp24 : I have to say that never had the opportunity to listen the
Rythmik subwoofers but I like that are servo controled and the manufacturer has a lot of models.

As any other audio items the manufacturers of subwoofers build and put in the market for sale at a very carefully choosed price point for a specific market segment.

Any audio item designed in specific at a market price point comes with the respective quality level performance. Not all " similar " subwoofers comes with the same quality level performance.

In my case quality level resolution with very low distortion levels is a main subwoofer characteristics because I use it for two channels listen MUSIC only inside a system very hard tunned to very high resolution with very very low room/distortions.

Normally with subs what we pay for is what we get on quality level performance.

Example: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/615

do you think that the owner of this two channels room/system could " live " with 2-4 or what ever number of subs you name it of Rythmik subwoofers/DBs instead those self powered/active subwoofers towers that can go down to 3hz with almost no distortion levels at full power?

Certainly not no matters what.

If the name of the game on each one of us room/system is Quality then we have to pay for ( obviously not of what offers that dream link system. ), especially if we are talking of two channel system for listen MUSIC.

But even at your price point or my price point there are differences in the quality level of subwoofers and we have to understand that fact.

Some of the gentlemans that post in this forum and that posted here always recomend the same kind of subs and the same number of susbs no matters what: it’s a no-sense advice because there are many things to take in count that are importan to the different OP needs that we must know before give any advice. With all respect to them seems to me that their attitude is not a human been one but a " robotic " one.

Of course that we are in a free world and we can say whatever we want, it’s our privilege to do it.

Btw, @leeid if your subs are to listen MUSIC then you need only two of them and this is a very good offer and alternative for you:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9a30g-velodyne-subwoofers-dd-12-subwoofers-2-pair-near-san-subwoofers

its THD at 120dbs is only 0.5% ! ! ! . Well, my subs came from Velodyne too and I know exactly what I’m talking about but as any thing in audio is only an opinion and could be wrong.. Who knows? The best opinion is yours that will be the gentleman whom will live with what you decide: 1 or 2-4-6 subs. What you decide is important only to you.

lways is difficult to understnd and talk about subwoofers subject and as you said needs a lot of homework for a newcomer, well maybe not a lot. My advise is that first try to define your priorities at the MUSIC/sound quality level.

Quality level for you could means something different for other gentleman depends of each one of us live MUSIC experiences, what we like and the best way to enjoy it.

Good luck with your quest/hunt and enjoy it, always is a learning lesson.

R.

I am going to suggest something different than the distributed array given the size of your room. Tim (Noble 100) will undoubtedly have a meltdown, as he is a member of the distributed array church and no others are allowed to suggest there is any other way to add subwoofers to a system. With that disclaimer, here are my thoughts:

1) Your room has a good distribution of nodes, with your major bass nodes at 40 & 47 hz, followed by 70 and 80hz. In the case of your 40& 47 hz, they are located immediately against the walls, an unlikely seating position.
2) One failure in Tim’s analysis of rooms is that while a distributed bass array is better at providing more uniform bass throughout a room, for a single seating position, you can virtually always get as good of response with two subwoofers. He seemingly ignores that it is the literature he relies on for the basis of his belief of a distributed array that also studied a single listening position.

3) Run an active crossover to relieve those 5" drivers in your main speaker from bass duties. By reproducing deeper bass, especially as the volume level increases, the driver will experience increased distortion. Marchand Acoustics builds some excellent active crossovers.

4) I would use 2 Rythmik F12 subwoofers (or even due to your room size two F8 Rythmiks) which have a built in single band parametric EQ’s that can address if you still have any issue with you 40&47 hz nodes after careful setup.

5) Setup, Setup, Setup- Spend time getting the subs setup. You will need to place each carefully and phase each to integrate with your main speakers. There are many guides on how to do this. I personally suggest using Room EQ (free) with a calibrated microphone ($60-80) as you can run sweeps and see what is going on in seconds and the effect of any adjustment. It makes placement and phasing much faster.

All in this puts you at $2,500 for excellent sounding subs that will blend in perfectly with your mains.  

Hey Hans, I live 15 miles north of you in Atkinson NH, just across the border. 
Your speakers are only 6 feet apart so although I would prefer two subs one better sub with an eye towards getting a second in the future would be better than two cheaper subs. The Ologe model 10 price is a bit steep for two 10 inch drivers. For that price you could have two JL labs Fathoms complete with amps and room control. Buy one now and get the second later. With one sub you would put it in the middle up against the wall. With two you would put them in the corners. It is a squarish room so you are going to have some standing wave issues best handled by moving the listening position to an area where the bass is hot then using room control to flatten it out. You could use 4 subwoofers but in a room that small that approach might be problematic. Again, 2 good subs is better than 4 not so hot ones. At any rate crossing over at 100 Hz 24 db/oct will be fine. I am sure there are several JL Labs dealers in the area. 

Mike

Hello mcreyn,

     I view this thread as a collaborative effort to try and assist Hans in arriving at the optimum solution for good bass performance in his home office in combination with his pair of Ologe main speakers, not a competition.
     If you reread my posts, you’ll realize I mention a 4-sub DBA system as the optimum solution but not the only solution. I agree that a two sub solution may be a very good solution in his particular case. If Hans decides on a two sub solution, I think it’s still important he realizes there’s a wide range of suitable subs he could use of varying qualities and prices. It’s also important that he makes sure the subs have the required volume, crossover frequency and phase controls and that they’re optimally set. We can let him know how to best set these once he makes his decision on the subs and configuration to use..

Tim

Dear @noble100 : """ I view this thread as a collaborative effort to try and assist.... """

werll that’s what you say but the true reality is that for you that 4 bass array/A K Swarm is a " religion " and good that you are satisfied with that kind of quality level performance.

Because you posted in this thread I know that for you is more important quantity of subs over the quality of subs performance.

@mijostyn speaks about quality over quantity and agree with him because that’s mu take too and even that @mcreyn did not said exactly usin the word quality he perfectly took in count it the importance of subs in two channels MUSIC system in what he posted as number 3):

""" crossover to relieve those 5" drivers in your main speaker from bass duties. By reproducing deeper bass, especially as the volume level increases, the driver will experience increased distortion.... """

that’s what makes a paramount difference in quality system performance: lowering the Intermodulation Distortions levels on those Ologue 5 main speakers.

You can’t speak about quality because your system quality level for MUSIC is to low. Is so low that you just can’t listen/hear the big difference between listening a passive speaker in its original frequency range design and the same speakers relieved from low bass frequencies.

With all respect only a " deaf " or in a very poor quality level system can’t any one listen/appreciate the enormous differences when the main passive speakers are relieved of the low bass range ( 80hz and down. ).
The difference is, believe it or not, nigth and day and has a name QUALITY level performance. Unfortunatelly you use too for HT your system.

From where came my statement that you have a very poor quality listening system. Well from your self statements made it in other threads:

Your small Magnepan psssive speakers has at specs:

Low-Pass 12dB/octave @ 650Hz

Band-Pass 6dB/octave @ 500Hz-950Hz

tyhat means that the quai-ribbon driver handle a really wide frequency range with very high IMD levels and even that you posted:


""" In my system, I’ve tried both configurations of running my planar panel mains full-range and with my mains as satellites with their low frequencies filtered out by the sub amp supplied with the Audio Kinesis Debra DBA system, This amp has a L/R high pass outputs for sending frequencies above the bass crossover setting to the main speakers amps.
I thought my system sounded best with the main speakers running full-range. The mid-range and treble range sounded very similar to me with both configurations """



I had for 4 months Magnepan speakers and I like it and know very well other planar ( electrostatic. ) speakers as the top of the line Soundlabs where the owner of them can’t believe what he listened when he added two subs in his great room/system ( only MUSIC, not HT. ). No matters what is almost imposible not to be aware of the differences for the better when the low bass range gone from the main speakers.

You not only did not been aware about but the system sounded best with main speakers running full range ! ! !

Well that is the quality level you have. I’m accustomed to a way different quality level.
As I said a 4-bass Swarm religion. Quality?: who cares !

I think that before any one of us can help to any one we have to know where we are truly " seated ". Please not bad feelings, I'm not against you or your free rigth to post whatever you want it: NO.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.