2. analog
  3. 151721-486

Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
halcro
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@nandric

My dear Slavic brother, ’’big’’, ’’long’’ etc. descriptions are logical
not ’’sound’’. The reason is that presupposed comparisons
are described as properties of objects. Being ’’long in Holland’’
means something totally different than being ’’long in Greece or
Italy’’. I was long in Serbia but am shorter in Holland. I.e. relational
sentences can’t be described with ’’subject is predicate ’’ form.
You have also try the same ’’method’’ with ’’little’’ suggesting that
very little glue between the stylus and cantilever is as ’’good’’
as no glue at all. I love you but the truth even more . The same
stated Aristoteles about Plato: ’’amicus Plato sed veritas amicitat’’.
Does ’’very short pipe’’ mean no pipe at all?

no worries, i have all types of cantilevers with all kinds of different combinations such as joint pipe vs. no joint pipe; glue vs. no glue ... etc. Heard it all before, just tried to help a bit to the readers with more images displayed the difference even in the same type from different manufacturers/designers.

rauliruegas
13,129 posts
 
Dear @halcro : You made comments on some of my posts but not when I " ask " if you preserve the 8000 effective length, offset angle and overhang when you use straigth headshells in that straigth tonearm.

Regarding the same issue the 8000 design is triaxial balanced and direct from SAEC they say:

" The 8000 ST is perfectly balanced on its X, Y and Z axis, wich converge at a single point for perfect lateral balance. ""

That critical balance and the bearing were designed taking in count the length of the tonearm and its mass according the use of the SAEC dedicated headshell.

The S3 FR headshell you said is the one used with the 88D is more than the double the weigth than the SAEC one and that over-weigth stays where coul do more harm: where MOI is affected the more.

Unfortunatelly I sold my 8000 and I can’t be sure which kind of additional distortions could be generated using that kind of straigth headshell with the 88D.

SAEC tonearms were famous in Japan for its " live/detailed " ( that some times means higher distortions and not a true live or detailed sound. ) kind of sound against the MS MAX 282 and this is not my opinion but what the japanese people opinions on those old times: they had preferences by the SAECs vs MS MAX that IMHO is way better tonearm design and way better performer.

About the SAEC knife bearing Dr Sao Win that was TT and cartridge manufacturer ( between other audio items. ) in his manual of his LOMC cartridge we can read a warning to not use his cartridge in a knife tonearm bearing designs.

Anyway, your coments about thet S3 along the 8000 are welcome especially because you posted the 88D is your HG. Do you already tested the 88D in other tonearm/TT or wit the SAEC headshell ?

Thank’s in advance,
R.
edgewear
543 posts
 
@nandric, I'm not an expert or technician so I may well be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the design of the Victor with the coils 'direct coupled' to the stylus bears some resemblance to Ikeda's design, which also has the coils very close to the stylus, while even discarding a cantilever. The Decca is another variation on this 'direct' theme, although not of the MC kind.  As is the Neumann DST, the most elusive (and bulky) member of this species.

Whether or not this presumed design resemblance translates to similar sonic characteristics remains to be heard. Which is one of the reasons I'm so curious to hear the Victor. As well as the Neumann, but that will probably never happen.

Interestingly, I learned that the designer of the Victor (a gentleman by the name of Mr. Kanno) is the same person responsible for the Phasemation cartridges. I happen to own a Phasemation P-3G (now updated as PP-300), which is a massive overachiever for its modest price. I find it interesting if I can detect a 'designer signature' across various generations of their cartridges. Sometimes there is, sometimes not.

larryi
4,340 posts
 
About a year ago, Warren Jarrett, on the Steve Hoffman forum, proposed a group buy of stylus-cantilever combinations from Namiki.  He found out that the micro-ridge stylus/boron cantilever combination would cost $95 each, and the micro-ridge stylus/diamond cantilever combination costs $660 each.  
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 
@edgewear, chakster actually warned against Victor MC's
series ''direct coupled'' kinds with his statement  ''it is hard to
find working samples''. The reason is the etched coils on an
small silicon plate. The coils are from aluminum connected with
very vulnerable (thin) copper wire soldered on aluminum coils.
The copper wire is glued on the cantilever and connected with
4 output pins. The soldered connection is the weak part of
the construction because the wire usually  breaks there. 
That is why ''it is hard to find working samples''. 
My Ikeda Rex feels insulted by your comparison (grin). 



More to discover