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Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
128x128halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
In the other side if you can't directly at your home system hear the distortions developed by that terrible/disastrous S3 headshell how could you think you will listen it from you tube recording. Makes sense to you? because for me is almost a stupid way of thinking.
Aaah....but we're not talking about ME Raul.....🤭
Of course I can't hear "distortions" which aren't there 🤪!
We're talking about YOU Raul.....who for years has spoken endlessly about your "self-taught" ability to 'hear' and 'analyse' every facet of the audio chain....and you even do it again in your Post above 😂.
But you admit that you can't hear a SINGLE "distortion" in the YouTube videos....?
What happened to these "distortions" Raul?
Did they somehow manage to 'vanish' in the recording process?
Others (like Frogman, Noromance, Dover) can hear clearly...the minute differences in the cartridges presented via the YouTube videos but you can't....🤗 
Please think for a moment how that S3 " works " against quality when all those ( non-damped. ) metal parts just " inmediatly " return/feedback its developed resonances/distortions to the cartridge cantilevers additional to the tonearm feedback own resonances.
Blah, blah, blah....words and theories which you disguise as 'knowledge' but reveal your ignorance.
Here we have a perfect 'test' for you Raul......
There are a dozen videos on my Thread, which use the WE-8000/ST arm WITHOUT the S3 headshell.
Please point out to us the "resonances, distortions, feedback" that are 'missing' with these headshells...😉
And if you CAN'T.......please have the humility to finally admit to us all, that you are nothing but an 'Audio Fraud' who hides behind meaningless 'words' but when 'challenged' to prove his boastful audio abilities.....continues to 'hide' behind meaningless words 🤣
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
It’s understandably difficult to hear the ’nuances’ and ’subtleties’ that a different cantilever material may bring....
I couldn’t hear the differences between a SAS-Boron, a NeoSAS-Sapphire and a NeoSAS-Ruby when I did the comparisons a while ago 🤨
It is therefore even more difficult to isolate any differences via YouTube videos. It becomes easier the better your playback medium is....

Listen to the beginning of the track with just the bass guitar, percussion and piano....
There is a distinctly different ’tone’ and clarity with the 88D and an ’added’ ability to project a 3D image.
Then listen at the 0.33 sec mark when the saxophone first comes in....there is a slight coarseness to its sound which is missing with the Diamond stylus.
Listen to the background drums behind the piano at the 1.00+ min mark which are more distinct and shimmery with the 88D.
And the real ’kicker’ at the 1.42 mark where the sax begins to strut its stuff....the 88D just gives this so much ’tonality’ that you can actually hear the reed..
Then listen to the background percussion and cymbals behind the sax all the way to the 3.00 min mark. Just a bit clearer and shimmery (again) with the 88D.
Then the drums from the 3.00 to the 3.30 marks...just a bit more ’timbre’ with the 88D.
At the 4.05 mark with the bass, piano and percussion...hear the extra clarity and sheen of the cymbals with the 88D and particularly behind the bass at the 4.40 mark till the end.
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 
Assumptions and deductions. Assumptions can be ''translated''
as premise and deductions as deductions from the premise.
The general logical rule then is: if the premise is not true than
also deductions can't be true.
The, say, ''Aussie premise'' is that the only difference between
XL-88 and XL-88D is the cantilever/stylus combo which is by
88D made from one piece of diamond while XL -88 has boron
cantilever and glued in ''super elliptical stylus''. Their price 
difference can be explained by complexity of ''cutting'' and polishing
of the diamond. BTW the first Van den Hul stylus designed for
Gyger (aka Gyger 1) was so complex that many samples were
lost. That is why Gyger 2 with less complex shape and dimensions
was produced. 
I ever started a thread with title ''irreparable carts'' and mentioned
explicit  XL-88D and all ZYX as such. Both have glued together
''plastic  bodies'' whit no entrance to inside parts. If, say, the
damping needs substitution there is no way to fix this problem.
Mori-san the inventor of the 8 figure coil former by XL series
stated that repair of his XL-88 and 88D is not possible. 
My friend Axels Schurholz deed try for two years to fix my 88D 
and then give up.
Ergo from the premisse it follows that diamond cantilever/
stylus made form one piece of diamond is superior to
''ordinary boron kind'' but this does not imply that all
diamond cantilevers are superior. All those with glued in
styli in particular. The curious ''damping theory'' of the
used glue between stylus and cantilever is an wonder in
the context of the ''rigidity theory''. 


Post removed 
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 
''Slightly scientific'' argument is , say, '' stolen'' from our beloved
J. Carr who stated that the advantage of aluminum cantilevers 
is that stylus can be pressure fitted while by the ''exotic kinds''
the stylus must be glued in. Aka ''suggesting'' the relevance of
''rigidity theory'' in this context .
BTW I owned both kinds of the XL 88. Despite the fact that my
88 D sample have had ''crooked'' cantilever/stylus and consequently
the headshell looked as ''adjusted'' by either an drunkard or someone
who has never heard about azimuth the sound of 88 D was 
superior. So I sold the 88 with assumption that my friend Axel
Schurholz will easily get the stylus perpendicular because of
the (further) assumption that all cantilevers ''must'' be glued in
the so called ''joint pipe''. Both assumptions were based on
''wishful thinking''. This was the very tragic situation with my 88D.
Anyway it seems that wear and tear of this diamond is not the
only problem by 88 D. I.e. also an possible retip will be problematic
because the cantilever is differently fastened in the ''joint pipe''. 
Otherwise Axel would not need two years to solve this problem.
 
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