Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?


Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
@mikelavigne, the classic red and yellow 'Iron Man' look of the darTZeel 108 is surely a matter of taste. I think that the looks are impressive and must play some psychological role in the appreciation of it's sound.

Others may find it rather out of place gaudy and distracting for an amp which still fetches near $10k used.

@mijostyn, no but it would be interesting to see what would happen if a solid state was disguised as a tube and vice versa. Would the usual perceived differences still hold true? Would they?

Anyway I think it's fair to say that speed is critical when it comes to high level turntable playback. Just look at how many purely speed based revisions the Linn LP12 has had during its tenure since 1972. Each one from the Valhalla board to the Lingo to the Radikal promising a substantial sonic improvement. Each one constrained by the pliant rubber belt, each one still rather vague about numbers and specs to back up the promises.

The soft blurring introduced by borderline undetectable speed anomalies (by ear alone) doesn't bother me too much as it's appears to enhance the 'analogue' feel of the playback. Ultimately though it's always up to the listener to determine just how much accuracy they need. 
ok; i started a separate thread on active isolation; with a few basics and some reference to it's use in my system. happy to get as deep as you want on the subject there. and hopefully allow specific turntable related things to continue here unabated.

http://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/active-isolation-what-can-it-do-for-music-reproduction/post?postid=1819746#1819746


mikelavigne, you ever listen to JC-1’s in your system? Maybe just a slightly better value many of us can afford.
i’ve met John Curl a few times, and had his CTC Blowtorch preamp design in my room for a few days once when my friend, the dear departed Bob Trump (who also was involved in the JC-1), visited me. but only heard the JC-1 amps at shows, never in my own system. a real giant killer for sure.

you could do a lots worse for 4x the dollars. agree it is one of the better modestly priced amplifiers ever and could handle most speaker loads easily. i have zero negative things to say about it.

maybe the best of the current crop of class D amps might compete on dollar value. but i’ve not really paid close attention to those products to know. not been in the market for an amplifier for a long time.
Stay the course....8^0
This thread is about Stylus Drag.
I said earlier based on my personal experiences, Stylus drag effect is based on the type 1) type of turntable, 2) the type of tonearm used, and 3) the type of cartridge/stylus. The turntable rabbit hole has been explored.......

So.....

Has anyone done a drag measurement for different stylus types.
Should be easy if you own a belt drive.
  
Count the revolutions for a set period of time without the stylus engaged.
Then try the different stylus types, and repeat.

https://www.vinylengine.com/images/forum/stylus_shapes/stylustypes.jpg

Conical, one would assume? - should have the least drag in the groove - least surface contact ?

Curious to findings

Boy, that CS Port LFT-1 is one handsome turntable. I seriously doubt stylus drag is going to be a problem for it. The platter is massive, driven by a Kevlar string! Granite base. Wonder what it goes for. Any guesses?