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Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?

Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
mikelavigne, you ever listen to JC-1’s in your system? Maybe just a slightly better value many of us can afford.
i’ve met John Curl a few times, and had his CTC Blowtorch preamp design in my room for a few days once when my friend, the dear departed Bob Trump (who also was involved in the JC-1), visited me. but only heard the JC-1 amps at shows, never in my own system. a real giant killer for sure.

you could do a lots worse for 4x the dollars. agree it is one of the better modestly priced amplifiers ever and could handle most speaker loads easily. i have zero negative things to say about it.

maybe the best of the current crop of class D amps might compete on dollar value. but i’ve not really paid close attention to those products to know. not been in the market for an amplifier for a long time.
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
Stay the course....8^0
This thread is about Stylus Drag.
I said earlier based on my personal experiences, Stylus drag effect is based on the type 1) type of turntable, 2) the type of tonearm used, and 3) the type of cartridge/stylus. The turntable rabbit hole has been explored.......

So.....

Has anyone done a drag measurement for different stylus types.
Should be easy if you own a belt drive.
  
Count the revolutions for a set period of time without the stylus engaged.
Then try the different stylus types, and repeat.

https://www.vinylengine.com/images/forum/stylus_shapes/stylustypes.jpg

Conical, one would assume? - should have the least drag in the groove - least surface contact ?

Curious to findings

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Boy, that CS Port LFT-1 is one handsome turntable. I seriously doubt stylus drag is going to be a problem for it. The platter is massive, driven by a Kevlar string! Granite base. Wonder what it goes for. Any guesses? 
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
CS Port LFT1 is not distributed in the Western Hemisphere as of right now.

in the UK it’s 47k Pounds Sterling....including the linear tracking arm. i think that includes the VAT. then the granite base is a few thousand more.

so equivalent to around $55k to $60k USD if offered here.....maybe into the mid 60k USD range. distributors tend to set their own prices.
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
mijostyn
The platter is massive, driven by a Kevlar string!

mijostyn
Kevlar would not be my choice of material to use on a string drive designed turntable.

"been there done that"

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4CeXnpSNXhk3fKKv6

Kevlar has strength, but is far, IMO from the best sounding. The best designed String Drive tables (again IMO) are very delicate ? (for lack of a better word) with the STRING - allowing the audiophile owner to use the most DELICATE of strings/threads. Very audible differences.

Now you want to talk about an Audiophile Rabbit Hole.

Opportunities await the Audiophile at Fabric land for the String Design.

More to discover