Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?


Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
Mike, so you are a political animal after all. 
ct0517, A,B and C are gross assumptions that are probably more often then not incorrect. The ceramic brakes on my car look better, last way longer and stop way better than steel brakes. The magnetic bearing in clearaudio tables performs and lasts longer than standard bearings. The Nikasil liners in my engine work better and last way longer than other cylinder liners. Why would a Koetsu not last as long as a Sumiko or an Air Tight not as long as a Kiseki. Why would a SAT arm not last as long as a Jelco. I could go on forever. 
Now I have never used a string table but my meager brain can not fathom why any other string would sound better than the kevlar one CS uses on a platter that weights more than my car. They admit to the fact that it is a very slow starting table that would occur with any string. Carbon Kevlar will not stretch which I can see as a huge advantage in this instance. 
i use the information at hand.

when i observe the depth of ct's experiences in his system link it's clear he has spent lots of time on the thread issue. i know from my time studying the AS-2000 when i had it on order that the whole drive thread question is not anything black and white. so i think my answer is the only reasonable way to respond considering i have zero first hand experience.. i'm leaving the possibility that the CS Port view of using the Kevlar might be the one true way, but that more likely it's not certain.

i'm in 'learn' mode here on this issue. it's not being nice, just knowing what i don't know.




Appreciate the comments Mike.
Mijostyn - Let me try to explain this better.
It’s not the string itself that has a "sound". Its how the "material used" is handled by the very small motor pulley, and how the string handles the platter - that produces the presentation.

One can use different string materials, with different compliance’s. One can also change the force with which the string is wrapped between the motor pulley and platter. Both ways produced different results. And whichever works best depends on the turntable design objective. The tighter the wrap, the more the motor performance influences the platter performance. The looser wrap puts less motor influence in play. My target is to give the motor the least amount of motor influence due to its Platter design - more on this in a minute. .

So my string is applied loose - so loose that I can flick the string between the motor and platter and a listener can not hear any stability issue. The motors influence is so little on the platter design, that if I change the pitch / speed, the change takes maybe 5 seconds or more to register to the ear.

The platter design is unlike most in that it is not free spinning - the opposite forces generated from the magnets produce a braking action, which from conversing directly with Mr. Verdier (when he was alive), helps to deal with the records erratic behavior due to the large and small groove modulations. It needs only occasional shots from the motor to keep at speed and overcome stylus drag. Note; A turntable with a free spinning platter would need significantly more motor control. This would change the requirement for the type of string that will be used also . make sense ?

Now if I set the string tension tighter - the same flick of the string will cause audible results because the motor influence has much greater control. This IMO was not how the motor was designed to be used with this turntable (tight), especially by those who bypass the string and use belt. This is also why I feel those that have modified their La Platine Verdiers with different motors - have gone that route. They were too tight, and the genius in the design of his Platter System - was not taken advantage of.



Mike, smart man. I like to theorize which sometimes gets me into trouble but I am in the camp that says "everything has a reason, cause and effect." Plus, a lot of stuff we wind up buying before we can really evaluate it like ski boots. So, you look at design and construction intelligently and pray you made the right choice. Now I have to look at what cd say in response. Off the top I would say a very stiff string would do much better than a stretchy one. In reality I would bet no one would be able to hear the difference unless the string were really stretchy (same problem as a really stretchy belt.)
Cd, I have to go look at the design of your turntable. Be back later today.
The belt string thing has been talked about for decades.  I would bet the guys who played with various strings belts and tape, ended up with tape.  Tape being the biggest pain.  If I had to sell to general public,  tape would be my last choice.

For the self proclaimed thinkers,  3 obvious reasons for sound difference could be stretch , sound transfer, and traction.  I am in traction camp, making the most difference.

My suggestion for anyone serious about getting what ever sound they are looking for, try the various choices above.  If you have a expensive belt drive have a machine shop make you some pulleys.  Read thru past literature and you off to the races.

Enjoy the ride
Tom