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Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
128x128halcro
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rauliruegas
12,901 posts
 
Dear @dover  : You are rigth about the Madrigal Carnegie 1 that came with the triple blend cantilever materials as the Sony but remember that exist the Carnegie 2 that is a different design where the cantilever came of boron and this C 2 as the C1 were a develops shared by Benz/VdH..

I owned the C1 and is not to bad but not so good either when the C2 ( that I still own. ) is very good performer: different design.


"""   would encourage you to find a lighter more rigid headshell - these Sony's are medium compliance and their suspensions are not robust.  """

almost any cartridge sounds better in differentb decent tonearms than SAECs and in the especial 8000 model this tonearm was designed for high compliance cartridges , not my words but SAEC ones. Good that you are hearing the " disaster " down there.

R.
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rauliruegas
12,901 posts
 
Dear @best-groove :  """  From what I read then aluminum is dominant in cantilevers for several expensive... """

no, it's not that way only some models. The SPU case is especial because the 80% of sales are made in Asia and Japanese are so idiocincratic in that cantilever material regards as in other audio items.

Dynavector use diamond and boron, Lyra use Boron, Ortofon diamond and boron in its top models, VdH use boron, Benz-Micro Ruby and boron, Sumiko use Boron, Air Tigth Boron, ZYX boron, My Sonic Labs boron, Koetsu diamond and boron, Clearaudio boron and I can go on listing today tops cartridges but even in the past too berylium, diamond and boron were the materials in the top model cartridge cantilevers: AT, Audio Craft, Audio Note, Technics, Sony, Dynavector, Yamaha, tec, etc.

Aluminum in the FR was what the designer like it more when he voiced his cartridges. Cantilever is an important part in the whole cartridge desing but only one part and in the voicing of the manufacturers we are in the " hands " of the designer bias to some kind of sound he was looking for.

Aluminum in the Magic Diamond was or is used not because is the best material but first because use the same cartridge motor of the Denon 103 ( aluminum cantilever. ) and second because was what the biased manufacturer like it.
 I had the opportunity to listen to the MD in a first rate system: Walker TT/tonearm, my Essential phonolinepreamp, speakers by Kharma and the like and is nothing to die for, a good cartridge but nothing more.

Maybe in the future when boron disappears aluminum will grow up but not before because it's an inferior material than boron, saphire, ruby or diamond for cantilever cartridges.

R.
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best-groove
833 posts
 
@rauliruegas   oook
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rauliruegas
12,901 posts
 
Dear @best.-groove  : The use of aluminum material in cantilevers has other reasons additional of what I posted.

One of those reasons could be the low knowledge level of the manufacturer to design something better because if that design only sounds good with aluminum in the cantilever then something is wrong in that design and this is true when the design is a copy of other cartridge where exist true inhabilities to make a better design.

Copy-cat is and was more often that we can imagine and not only in cartridges but in tonearms or TT and other audio items.
An examples of that could be the Graham tonearm that comes from the vintage Audiocraft tonearm design or the Moerch that comes from the Highphonic tonearm design.
From where came Highphonic cartridges?, well from ex-Denon cartridge employees that founded HP and the first " move " in their new designs came to the cantilever build material that instead to use aluminum like in Denon they started to use carbon fiber, diamond and ruby.

Today there are several cartrisges that uses the Denon 103 cartridge motor or the Benz-Micro one or the VDH one or Goldring and others cartridge motors and this exist because some of the original manufacturers works as OM for marketers./sales companies.

It's like Jelco that additional to his own tonearms the manufacture for Ortofon, Audioques, Sumiko, Koetsu and others.
Scan-Tech build top cartridges for Lyra, Linn, Audioquest, etc, etc.

Of copurse that both examples makes the " new " tonearm or cartridges under the seller specs/characteristics.


R.
dover
2,200 posts
 
Moerch that comes from the Highphonic tonearm design.
Wrong. Moerch released its first tonearm UP4 in 1981, 4 years before the Highphonic was launched in 1985. I think you’ll find the Highphonic arm was a rebadged Moerch.

From where came Highphonic cartridges?, well from ex-Denon cartridge employees that founded HP and the first " move " in their new designs came to the cantilever build material that instead to use aluminum like in Denon they started to use carbon fiber, diamond and ruby.
So what. Like the Denon DL1000 ( which I owned ) all the Highphonic cartridges ( which I have heard ) were thin and lean, no meat on the bones. If you think you can live on Kale salad these are the cartridges for you. Cartridges are always a sum of the parts - a diamond cantilever on an average cartridge is at best just a more articulate average cartridge.
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