Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?


Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
The belt string thing has been talked about for decades.  I would bet the guys who played with various strings belts and tape, ended up with tape.  Tape being the biggest pain.  If I had to sell to general public,  tape would be my last choice.

For the self proclaimed thinkers,  3 obvious reasons for sound difference could be stretch , sound transfer, and traction.  I am in traction camp, making the most difference.

My suggestion for anyone serious about getting what ever sound they are looking for, try the various choices above.  If you have a expensive belt drive have a machine shop make you some pulleys.  Read thru past literature and you off to the races.

Enjoy the ride
Tom
Ct0517, Sorry for miss spelling your name. I have reviewed the design of the Verdier. It has a 16 kg platter with a reverse spindle supported by opposing magnets, belt or string drive. If the magnets are oriented correctly they should have no braking action. The reason to use opposing magnets is to lower friction and hence noise. I personally like the air bearing concept better as I am allergic to magnets near cartridges but that is me. Now, you have a very massive platter. With mass goes inertia. It does not like to move and it does not like to stop moving. In a frictionless, airless environment it would continue spinning indefinitely.
The mass of the rotor in your motor is an order of magnitude smaller. It is much easier to move and easier to stop moving. Once the turntable reaches a steady state speed it requires very little input to keep that speed going, whatever it takes to overcome friction and air resistance. 
At this point the platter is really in control of the motor. Because of the relative difference in mass the platter will smooth out any irregularities in the motor. If the motor is cogging you would never be able to detect that at the platter with any instrumentation including your ears. Could you ever detect any motor noise coming down the string and infecting the platter?
That would be like a VW bug trying to tow a beached aircraft carrier. Sitting on the deck sipping a pina colada you would never even know the VW was there. Now the stretchier the string the lower any resonant frequency in the drive system would be. The Carbon Kevlar string would have a much higher resonance frequency but it does not matter because it is totally dampened by the mass of the platter. This is why Rolls Royce goes out of it's way to make the most massive cars on the planet. They ride smoother. 
Ct0517 I can not argue with your ears. You do whatever you think makes your system sound better. The only reason a stiff string transfers the force of your finger flicking it is because it is stiffer.  Your motor does not apply force that way. A stretchier belt will transfer just as much noise but at a lower frequency. In your example you can't hear it because the frequency is down below what most systems can reproduce. Hook up an oscilloscope and you will see it.  
Mike, my daughter will be living in Shanghai for a year. She is going to look into getting the CS Port turntable. It should be much less. Rock and Roll!
mijostyn - I want to thank you very much for the CD mention on an audio site - it gave me a chuckle .
I need some chuckles you know after the Canadian federal election results.8^(

Just a forum misunderstanding that's all in this case on the term braking action. You may use the term damping if you like. To slow down implies braking as far as I am concerned.  
   
As you know take two fridge magnets - same poles facing each other - just try to make them come together and stay together - 8^0
oh....if someone is successful at this,  please let Geoffkait know.
   
Now picture two very nicely isolated magnetic circles - one positioned above the other. Same poles facing one another. The top one is attached to the bottom of the platter and it rotates only.
the force between them causes levitation and the damping / braking action. The platter will support an 8 kilogram center weight - if one were inclined.
Now  
with the string engaged, motor pulley and platter, if I turn the motor off, things wind down slowly and the platter takes about 20 seconds to come to a dead stop.
If I instead cut the string with scissors - the platter stops in a much shorter time - 1/4 the time from what I remember - due to the damping braking force between the magnets.  


Mike, my daughter will be living in Shanghai for a year. She is going to look into getting the CS Port turntable. It should be much less. Rock and Roll!
Rock and Roll indeed!

wow! congrats on having a daughter that (1) can buy a turntable like that, and (2) wants to buy a turntable like that.....and of course (3) gets to spend a year in Shanghai. exciting place, never been myself.

don’t think CS Port has mainland China distribution yet, but Japan is close. good luck on the price part....less.....but maybe not 'much' less.

my daughter likes music, but is not audiophile or vinyl lover. my expectations are more minimal. i just wish her and her husband (married 10+ years) would give me a grandkid or three. i could spend time with them and not buy so much hifi gear.
My daughter is a heavy music lover. She sang opera in collage. She is not an audiophile. Her fiance might be. He certainly gets big smiles listening to the rig. 
As for the CS, it should be less expensive depending on import fees and shipping although I could have them bring it back on their flight it still has to make it through customs. There are ways though to lighten the load so to speak....if she can get one. I'll put my 4 point 14 in the second position. It is my Koetsu arm. The platter weights 27 Kg! That is 60 lb and it is stainless steel with is non magnetic and a great shield. I'll have to have a dust cover made for it. Another paltry $300.00
Good luck with the grand kids. Maybe you need to give your son in law lessons?? 

Mike