2. analog
  3. 151541-486

Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?

Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
mijostyn - I want to thank you very much for the CD mention on an audio site - it gave me a chuckle .
I need some chuckles you know after the Canadian federal election results.8^(

Just a forum misunderstanding that's all in this case on the term braking action. You may use the term damping if you like. To slow down implies braking as far as I am concerned.  
   
As you know take two fridge magnets - same poles facing each other - just try to make them come together and stay together - 8^0
oh....if someone is successful at this,  please let Geoffkait know.
   
Now picture two very nicely isolated magnetic circles - one positioned above the other. Same poles facing one another. The top one is attached to the bottom of the platter and it rotates only.
the force between them causes levitation and the damping / braking action. The platter will support an 8 kilogram center weight - if one were inclined.
Now  
with the string engaged, motor pulley and platter, if I turn the motor off, things wind down slowly and the platter takes about 20 seconds to come to a dead stop.
If I instead cut the string with scissors - the platter stops in a much shorter time - 1/4 the time from what I remember - due to the damping braking force between the magnets.  


mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
Mike, my daughter will be living in Shanghai for a year. She is going to look into getting the CS Port turntable. It should be much less. Rock and Roll!
Rock and Roll indeed!

wow! congrats on having a daughter that (1) can buy a turntable like that, and (2) wants to buy a turntable like that.....and of course (3) gets to spend a year in Shanghai. exciting place, never been myself.

don’t think CS Port has mainland China distribution yet, but Japan is close. good luck on the price part....less.....but maybe not 'much' less.

my daughter likes music, but is not audiophile or vinyl lover. my expectations are more minimal. i just wish her and her husband (married 10+ years) would give me a grandkid or three. i could spend time with them and not buy so much hifi gear.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
My daughter is a heavy music lover. She sang opera in collage. She is not an audiophile. Her fiance might be. He certainly gets big smiles listening to the rig. 
As for the CS, it should be less expensive depending on import fees and shipping although I could have them bring it back on their flight it still has to make it through customs. There are ways though to lighten the load so to speak....if she can get one. I'll put my 4 point 14 in the second position. It is my Koetsu arm. The platter weights 27 Kg! That is 60 lb and it is stainless steel with is non magnetic and a great shield. I'll have to have a dust cover made for it. Another paltry $300.00
Good luck with the grand kids. Maybe you need to give your son in law lessons?? 

Mike
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Ct, I'm not going to step into that one. All I can say is you guys need to treat your doctors better so the good ones stop coming down here.
You are saying that when you cut the string it takes less time for the platter to come to a stop. That does not make sense to me. The magnets don't change in any way and you are releasing it from the drag of the motor yet it takes 1/4 of the time to stop? 
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
^^
When I cut the power to the motor you can hear the internal gears still working, winding down slowly - as the string is still attached to the pulley it keeps turning the platter.
32.5 seconds. just tried it.  Now  I don't feel like cutting the string right now 8^0.  take my word on the shorter duration.  
oh and I can cut the power for a couple seconds, turn it on again and the music doesn't miss a beat to the listener, like flicking the string. 
From the moment I heard this table in 101 set up at the beginning with the first record - I knew I was done. End of the road. Same goes for my tonearm. That was many years ago. I do still enjoy talking tech and helping others get set up through the winter months. Good luck on your new turntable. 

My fraternal twins love music and they know all the music I love - but millennial's get I would say 60-70% of the satisfaction with their portable systems. They are happy with that. I don't see any wanting to set up a system that is not portable.  I am thinking of starting a thread.

"The Audiophile's Equipment Burden on the Family"  and  "Strategies to Deal with the Burden"

I thought for myself the gear was going to be the burden. Nope - its the records on two floors of our house. 

Cheers Chris 
More to discover