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What is wrong with audiophiles?

Something that has happened countless times happened again last night. Ordinary people over for a party listening to some music easily hear things audiophiles argue endlessly don't even exist. Oh, its worse even than that- they not only easily hear but are stunned and amazed at what they hear. Its absolutely clearly obvious this is not anything they ever were expecting, not anything they can explain- and also is not anything they can deny. Because its so freaking obvious! Happens every time. Then I come on here and read one after another not only saying its impossible, but actually ridiculing people for the audacity of reporting on the existence of reality.

What is wrong with audiophiles?

Okay, concrete examples. Easy demos done last night. Cable Elevators, little ceramic insulators, raise cables off the floor. There's four holding each speaker cable up off the floor. Removed them one by one while playing music. Then replaced them. Music playing the whole time. First one came out, instant the cable goes on the floor the guy in the sweet spot says, "OH! WTF!?!?!"

Yeah. Just one. One by one, sound stage just collapses. Put em back, image depth returns.

Another one? Okay.

Element CTS cables have Active Shielding, another easy demo. Unplug, plug back in. Only takes a few seconds. Tuning bullets. Same thing. These are all very easy to demo while the music is playing without interruption. This kills like I don' know how many birds with one stone. Auditory memory? Zero. Change happens real time. Double blind? What could be more double blind than you don't know? Because nobody, not me, not the listener, not one single person in the room, knows exactly when to expect to hear a change- or what change to expect, or even if there would be any change to hear at all. Heck, even I have never sat there while someone did this so even I did not know it was possible to hear just one, or that the change would happen not when the Cable Elevator was removed but when the cable went down on the floor.

We're talking real experience here people. No armchair theorizing. What real people really hear in real time playing real music in a real room.

I could go on. People who get the point will get the point. People who ridicule- ALWAYS without ever bothering to try and hear for themselves!- will continue to hate and argue.

What is wrong with audiophiles?

Something almost all audiophiles insist on, its like Dogma 101, you absolutely always must play the same "revealing" track over and over again. Well, I never do this. Used to. Realized pretty quickly though just how boring it is. Ask yourself, which is easier to concentrate on- something new and interesting? Or something repetitive and boring? You know the answer. Its silly even to argue. Every single person in my experience hears just fine without boring them to tears playing the same thing over and over again. Only audiophiles subject themselves to such counterproductive tedium.

What is wrong with audiophiles????
128x128millercarbon
prof
3,479 posts
 
Yeesh.

Cleeds, the nature of testing claims, from individual, to groups, to devices, has been clear to some of us all along.

The only reason I jumped in on that subject was due to YOUR writing in a “convoluted” and confusing manner on the subject. You simply did not express yourself well on the subject so we’ve been clearing up ambiguities.

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cleeds
5,987 posts
 
atdavid
All that needs to be tested "Is The Claim", and almost without fail, it is an individual making a claim that They hear something, or a vendor (or audiophile) making a claim ..
You're still new to the forum, so you can be excused for this misunderstanding. Most claims made here have many users who report hearing similar things. Feel free to peruse the forum yourself to confirm that.

Why would anyone even bother to test the claim of one solitary person making one solitary, hard-to-believe claim? Such a claim is easily ignored unless, that is, you prefer to use it as a basis for lengthy, convoluted circular arguments.
atdavid
736 posts
 
You are still misunderstanding. Whether one person, or a hundred people makes a claim, they are still individuals making a claim, and it is their specific claim that is being refuted.

I could design a perfect experiment to test some "tweak X" in general. I could assemble the best system on the planet (for testing "tweak X"), put it in a space perfectly designed for acoustics and that specific system, and then pick 100 of the best "golden ears", with extensive training in listening tests. I could reach the perfectly clear conclusion that the use of "tweak X" was completely and totally inaudible. Result: If "tweak X" was popular with a certain set of audiophiles, those audiophiles would be running here as fast as their keyboards would allow to make up any number of excuses, yes excuses for why the test was not valid. Just look at the excuses suppliers will make for not doing controlled listening tests ....

It is far more useful in some contexts, personable, and actually far less prone to error to prove/disprove specific claims made by individuals, whether about themselves specifically, or a readily identified group, as the claim is very tightly bounded. Prove enough of those specific claims false, and you accomplish more than a well controlled test.


Oh, and your comment about me being "new to the forum" was, to put it kindly, misplaced. This is not the only audiophile forum/gathering place on the web.



thyname's avatar
thyname
3,107 posts
 
LOL!!! it looks like nobody can make a claim (read: share his/her own experience) about any audio component, unless he/she can:

1 - Show detailed measurements on said components. Including proof / validation of the instruments used in the measurements, 

and

2 - Show proof of scientifically controlled, ABX test, with a large enough pool of people to have any statistical meaning

If not, every claim is null and void! LOL!!!!
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cleeds
5,987 posts
 
thyname
... it looks like nobody can make a claim (read: share his/her own experience) about any audio component, unless he/she can:

1 - Show detailed measurements on said components. Including proof / validation of the instruments used in the measurements,

and

2 - Show proof of scientifically controlled, ABX test, with a large enough pool of people to have any statistical meaning

If not, every claim is null and void!
That is essentially what many measurementalists on this forum claim to believe. A few have taken it one step further: only one test, with one listener, is necessary to "prove" their point.

I say that they "claim" to believe that because I suspect many - notwithstanding what they write - don't believe it at all. They're just seeking an argument.
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