Phono Preamp Tube Rush


Is there such a thing as a tube phono stage that doesn't have tube rush? Is it just an inherent weakness of that type of pre or is it some combination of cartridge gain and preamp gain? I went from a silent solid state ASR Basis Exclusive to a Herron VTPH-2A (new home with space limitations) and now I'm using a Hagerman Trumpet with my Decca London Super Gold. Both the Herron and Hagerman have tube rush. The Hagerman beats the Herron in my setup and it really sounds incredible but in quiet passages and between songs, there's that hiss at high-medium and high volume. It's just there. No combination of new tubes, new cables, etc changes this fact. Same with the Herron. Anyone having a different experience with a tube phono preamp?
dhcod
if executed in the balanced domain you get a maximum of 6dB less noise
Actually, that's not true.  With balanced amplification you get 6dB more signal gain, but you also get 6dB more differential noise gain.  Overall SNR is the same.  

The benefit of balanced amplification is rejection of common mode noise such as power supply crud, and crap injected on both + and - inputs together (sometimes hum).  You get a better amplifier with higher overall performance, but noise floor from a differential source such as the resistance of a cartridge is the same.  
Lewm, according to the meter I have yes with peaks just slightly over 110 dB. (I had ear protection on at the time:) God knows how accurate the meter is. I think more remarkable is that this is with ESLs (using subwoofers from 125 Hz down). From 10 row center the last NIN concert I went to hit 120 dB (I also had hearing protection on) Getting the meter into the concert was a bit rough. Had to take the battery cover off and show that it was working while everyone behind was getting pissed. Anyway, the loudest I ever play it on rare occasions is 105 dB usually with concert videos. Most of my listening with Rock and Jazz is at 95 dB. Don't forget to warm up your ears first! 
I love your Steelhead, almost bought one but right now I am looking at Phono amps with balanced outputs and inputs. Coming from where Manley does you would think they would do that. 
We live in a house I have been building since 1993. 
In regard to the SLN tubes the only thing I can say is that with the system set at 95 db I can not here anything with my ear right against the speaker over the background noise of the house. With the volume maxed out I can just make out a hum, again ear against the speaker. The Tubes are now 6 years old. I have no idea if this is noisier than when they were new but even if they do get noisier with age I suspect a SLN tube will always be quieter than a LN or standard tube of the same age and make.
I then extrapolated from that number to the result corresponding to the 12 ohm resistance of my cartridge, over a 20 kHz bandwidth:
@almarg Most LOMC cartridges have bandwidth well past 20KHz- most have no worries going to 40KHz.
if executed in the balanced domain you get a maximum of 6dB less noise
Actually, that's not true. With balanced amplification you get 6dB more signal gain, but you also get 6dB more differential noise gain. Overall SNR is the same.  

IME you get the same gain- not 6dB more. We might have to straighten out our terms here- it might be that we are talking about the same thing.


Most LOMC cartridges have bandwidth well past 20KHz- most have no worries going to 40KHz.
Hi Ralph,

Yes, I realize that. But what I was attempting to calculate was an approximate figure of the amount of Johnson noise (aka thermal noise) attributable to the cartridge’s resistance **that might be audible** while a record is not being played.

@hagtech, thanks for confirming that the ESR (equivalent series resistance) of a cartridge can be used for purposes of that calculation.

Best,
-- Al
Almarg and Hagtech, Do I conclude from the talk about Johnson noise that (1) MM cartridges with their inherently much higher internal resistance and much much greater inductance will be noisier than MC types?  (But of course the noise that accompanies the greater gain needed for a typical MC vs an MM would swamp Johnson noise in most cases.)  And (2) what about all those high value Rs often used in an RIAA network, again, IF one is obsessive about Johnson noise?
I've never measured the R across the secondary of a typical SUT but I would never have imagined it could be as high as 3900 ohms.  Surprising.  I am not an SUT kind of guy, either.