New Old Thiel CS6 Speakers--Too Harsh


Hi All,

New pair of Thiel CS6 Speakers. First true pair of 'audiophile' speakers (...still might go back to my Kappa 7's and 8's).

Imaging and that 'holographic' sound is pretty good on the Thiels but not as good as the JBL 4312a's.  But again I am plagued by harshness in my system. It seems detail and excellent spatial performance just equates to brittle, harsh and painful in my room. I like to listen at rather loud volumes.

Frequencies that appear to be the problem are between 2khz all the way up to 16khz. If I EQ the system is listenable. 

The other issue the Thiels seem to have is out of phase low bass due to the passive radiator. Can anyone confirm this?

Here is my setup right now:
Modwright Oppo 105d (physical media and streaming)
Sonic Frontiers Line 2 preamp
Conrad-Johnson Premier 350 
14x17 room, on concrete slab carpeted with additional thick throw rug, heavy velour drapes over windows, bare walls and cd/record shelves, nothing on the ceiling.

What is causing the tizzy sharpness in my system/room?

So far the Infinity Kappa Series with its ribbon tweeters has sounded best in my room. The 8's are very impactful and tonally very complete. The 7's are close, not quite as impactful but have better imaging due to lower tweeter height. 

....and I don't want truth. I want beauty.

:-)

Thanks!


128x128brettmcee
I had the Thiel CS6 and it's hard to imagine someone's description being more opposite from what they sounded like at my place.

For me they were beautifully smooth, rich, easy to listen to, with some of the most dense, punchy, focused bass and among the most focused, holographic imaging I've heard.

So...I dunno what's going on with your pair.

(I had a good listening room and powered them with Conrad Johnson premier 12 amps, which helped, I'm sure).

brettmcee


Nice system!  Perusing over your gear- I cannot imagine the harsh factor reported? What cabling are you using? Double check all cabling connections.


The Thiel will reveal more imaging  presentation and sound than the Infinity Kappa series. Your ears can expect richer texture and timbre in comparison. Often, audiophiles lay claim that equates to bright, forward and harsh.

Happy Listening!


Obviously, I’ve not been in your room, but let me suggest a few things.

(1) with bare walls and ceiling, you have a lot of reflections. If there is slap echo anywhere, you need to kill it, preferably with a combination of diffusion and absorption. Same with 1st reflections from sidewalls. Both cause irritation.

(2) I owned a pair of Thiels -- maybe CS 2 or CS 3 -- about 30 yr ago. I found them so tipped up that I built a high-cut filter to go between my pre and power amp. That was a different speaker, of course, but I don’t know of any Thiels that have been described as "mellow."

You probably need to treat the room, at least a little. You may need different speakers, as well, or a good EQ, or both. (What kind of music do you listen to? If it's violin sonatas, you DEFINITELY need to do both 1 and 2. ;-) )

Good luck! Have fun!
Not sure about the Kappa's and how they sound but I can tell you having owned Thiels for 20 years they are great speakers.  I am using CS6 in my system and also own a pair of 3.6's.  You have some great speakers and to get the most out of them, like any great component, you have to build a synergistic system including cables, around them.

I think your source could be an issue, not sure because I don't listen to streaming or rarely digital.  Your Thiels will let you know right away if the tone leads towards brightness which can be a symptom of digital or even some vinyl.

I am familiar with your amp.  I love CJ and considered this amp for my system.  Around this time CJ began using Teflon caps.  The teflon caps are definitely more revealing especially on the top end.  I have a CJ ET5 which also uses teflon caps and is a departure from the warm romantic golden glow of CJ past.  This also takes careful system matching.

What cables are you using?  

Finally, good advice with your room above.  It is on the small side for the 6's but can still work with some placement experimentation and first reflection absorption or diffusion .  Thiels do not like walls, front or sidewalls.

You bought great speakers but they are definitely not plug and play.  They are speakers you build around not finish off.  Good luck and have fun with it!


Your source is causing the sharpness period.  I just went though this with an owner of the 2.4s and the newer versions of the larger speakers. He was amazed when we swapped out the source with a better one.

Happy Listening.